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Disturbing DCI rumors

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43 minutes ago, Glenn426 said:

Your preference is preventing WW players from join the corps they love and feature the full breath of their talents on their primary instrument.

Surely the only thing that has kept WW's from Joining DCI before is the loud public opinion of those who threaten to leave DCI for good if WW players join.

I cant help but to see some parallels in this train of thought to other forms of disrespect.

Well dang Spanky I’m just going to drive right over to the local bagpipe band and demand that they let me join with my trombone. If and they say no I’ll start yelling I’m being disrespected 

Have read over the years that drum corps prepares people for life. Well here’s a life lesson: you don’t always get what you want. And complaining that others should change to suit ME could be seen as selfish.

And want to see facts on your middle paragraph. 

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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3 hours ago, Glenn426 said:

Elders seem to forget that they had their time with the activity. The activity does not serve them any longer. And this activity has far too long served the elders for fear of angering the elders.

If the Elders from today treated the activity the same way in their time, we would still be having VFW drills on the field.

There has always been change in this activity and it will continue. 

I'm just here to say that Elders had their time and need to let it go to become what it is to become. If you want what you had, go to DCA. or start your own Senior Corps where you can bask in the good old days.

Do you understand DCI and its history? It doesn’t sounded like you do.

As some posters here can attest, I sit in a section in Indy that includes quite a formidable group of people, many of whom are in the Hall of Fame. The only reason I sit in this section is because the person who organizes the section invited me. I in no way, shape, or form, have contributed what these folks have to this activity but they have become my vacation buddies each year. None of them have ever been referred to as “Elders” though more than a few would deserve the title, all are very supportive of the young people on the field, they like some changes, Miss certain aspects of the past, and probably would not be thrilled about woodwinds. And you should be grateful to them. You aged out in 2005. 2000-2010 were pretty challenging times for drum corps. Attendance at shows declined and there was a major recession. Many of these “Elders” financially supported the activity. They still attend shows. Many sponsor young people who march. 

Drum corps should be about the young, but should never be we are the young, it is our time, you move on. It should be about all kinds of people coming together, including people of different mindsets. Drum corps can’t survive without the marching members, but drum corps can not survive without fans who buy tickets, souvenirs, make donations, etc. It’s a two way street. 

Edited by Tim K
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1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Glenn,

How do you know those opposed to woodwinds in Drum Corps are a minority?  Has there been polling done?  Also, can't woodwind players "Achieve greatness" in marching band now?  Some of us had to learn a new instrument in order to participate and we didn't feel "alienated".  If I want to be on the swim team I have to learn how to swim.  Does this requirement "alienate" non-swimmers?     

Lastly, your comment: "as opposed to having to recycle old themes and song choices".......your argument implies the lack of woodwinds causes this.  I don't buy it.

 

 

 

I’m a concert horn player since age 8.  When I joined drum corps in the fall of 1971, I definitely had to tackle a new beast. 

I’ve rolled with every change. Full disclosure:  I don’t love the proppery.  But I’m not sure I can cross the Rubicon when woodwinds are permitted.  Notice I said “when” because I’m not arguing that it’s going to happen. 

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2 hours ago, Glenn426 said:

Potential Members in the Tens of Thousands who could be Marching a Wood Wind Instrument on the DCI Field.

There were approximately 3,300 young people who marched World Class last year (do the math). So in order for "thousands" more saxophone-honking' mofo's to join DCI, we'll need another 30 or 40 full-size corps made up of ONLY woodwinds players. Given that every corps loses money on every single performer on the field as is (and that all but a couple World Class corps lost money this past season), there's little chance that new spots will open up, since no one wants to increase size (it'd just cost each corps MORE money). So what would happen instead is that 30 or 40 guard, percussion, or brass spots would turn into woodwinds spots instead. Net gain in members - zero. Net gain in sound production? Zero. Net increase in costs because of new layers of musical techs and dozens of new instruments - thousands of dollars each year.

Those most in favor of this proposed change have a tendency to be people who make money from this activity, like designers, who already leverage their drum corps association to make significant sums off marching band booster clubs. Having DCI all-instrument would also allow them to sell the exact same arrangement they did for a corps to a band, no changes needed except for some watering. How nice that would be!

But there's no study out there showing that diluting the sound of drum corps in favor of all-instrument band is appealing to the current members, the fan base, and the donors - the ones currently keeping the activity afloat. 

Edited by Slingerland
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55 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

There were approximately 3,300 young people who marched World Class last year (do the math). So in order for "thousands" more saxophone-honking' mofo's to join DCI, we'll need another 30 or 40 full-size corps made up of ONLY woodwinds players. Given that every corps loses money on every single performer on the field as is (and that all but a couple World Class corps lost money this past season), there's little chance that new spots will open up, since no one wants to increase size (it'd just cost each corps MORE money). So what would happen instead is that 30 or 40 guard, percussion, or brass spots would turn into woodwinds spots instead. Net gain in members - zero. Net gain in sound production? Zero. Net increase in costs because of new layers of musical techs and dozens of new instruments - thousands of dollars each year.

Those most in favor of this proposed change have a tendency to be people who make money from this activity, like designers, and already leverage their drum corps association to make significant sums off marching band booster clubs. Having DCI all-instrument would also allow them to sell the exact same arrangement they did for a corps to a band, no changes needed except for some watering. How nice that would be!

But there's no study out there showing that diluting the sound of drum corps in favor of all-instrument band is appealing to the current members, the fan base, and the donors - the ones currently keeping the activity afloat. 

Staffs have been driving the budgets for years. It’s reasonable to believe they would stand to profit from additional instrumentation too. It’s getting unsustainable. Props, flags and costumes are not being purchased as organizations were told. The unused inventory gets larger and the return on investment shrinks each year. 

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Whenever I see "sound reinforcement" substituted for "amplification", red flags appear.    This whole line of reasoning starts from the false premise that amplification makes things "sound better".   Your instinctive reaction is "we're musicians!  of course we want it to sound better."    And thus otherwise reasonable people are led down the garden path:

  • Our front ensemble instruments are destroying their instruments and playing with terrible technique.  Let's allow amplification so we can fix that.
  • OK!  That's reasonable.
     
  • Simulating different sounds and colors via mechanical means is a poor substitute for a sampling keyboard.  Let's use synths to give us higher quality sounds from instruments that will never be in drum corps.
  • OK!  Man that sound great.
     
  • Using small speakers on either end of the pit  keeps audiences outside the 40s from hearing everything.  Let's add speaker arrays.
  • Woohoo!  I can hear EVERYTHING now.
     
  • Hey playing brass FFF can be really difficult.  Let's mic the front sideline so we get the same "loud as an effect" without compromising tone quality.
  • OK sure.  It sounds better right?
     
  • Our visual guys want to explore new placements for soloists but we can't hear them from there.  Let's just wireless amplify them all over the field.
  • Sound quality assured!
     
  • Hey  we have 15 extraordinarily talented players we want to feature throughout the show.  Let's mic them up!
  • Why not?!?
     
  • Uh oh we can't hear our tubas.  Let's mic them the whole show.  After all actual tubas are better than a patch, right?
  • Absolutely.  Live is better than goo!
     
  • Hey our synths are providing sampled woodwind sounds.  Wouldn't it be better if we just used actual woodwind players?  We'd be more inclusive!
  • Don't say I'm not inclusive!  Let's do it!

Once you accept that false premise,  you literally can't say no.   

F0q3lSp.png

 

Edited by karuna
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4 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

Drum corps is the only activity that asks it’s fans to leave.  Amazing.  

No. The proponents are generally small minded narcissists who cannot influence others because they have no respect for them (see: narcissism). Therefore “go away” is pretty much all they have. “Timber“ and “palette” are all nonsensical B.S. trying to sound important. “You don’t have to use it if you don’t want to” is such nonsense it’s laughable. 

Edited by HockeyDad
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50 minutes ago, Poppycock said:

Staffs have been driving the budgets for years. It’s reasonable to believe they would stand to profit from additional instrumentation too. It’s getting unsustainable. Props, flags and costumes are not being purchased as organizations were told. The unused inventory gets larger and the return on investment shrinks each year. 

Well, when the grown ups won’t say “no”, the staff will keep insisting on more toys. 

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3 hours ago, Glenn426 said:

What warrants a Legacy Fan? I aged out in 2005 I am by definition a Dino as are most in this forum, I however don't hold my enjoyment of the product hostage because its meets my strict criteria. This is an art form, Art constantly changes. During my time, We went from G Bugles to Bb Horns, From No Amps, to Amps And the products got better.

Everyone is free to do as they please, all i'm saying is that if you are going to hinge your enjoyment of DCI based on the fact that DCI doesn't have WoodWinds on the field, allow the rest of us who still enjoy the product regardless of the instrumentation to enjoy it in peace, Free from the Toxicity.

If you are still here after the rule change don't make it miserable for everyone else. 

No one has a gun to your head making you read this.  Why don’t YOU go away?  You’re making this toxic. 

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52 minutes ago, Poppycock said:

Staffs have been driving the budgets for years. It’s reasonable to believe they would stand to profit from additional instrumentation too. It’s getting unsustainable. Props, flags and costumes are not being purchased as organizations were told. The unused inventory gets larger and the return on investment shrinks each year. 

He’s right.  All you have to do is go to the merchandise for sale sections of corps websites.  Tons of old stuff for sale. 

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