Disturbing DCI rumors

[Slingerland]

29 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

How does one research non-fans to determine what will make them fans?  

DCI does have research that indicates about 1/3 or more of the audience for Finals is made up of friends and family of current members. If there were more members in each corps, then that would presumably push up the numbers for Finals (to an extent: they're selling seats in the end zone now, and at a certain point, when the seats become undesirable, no one will want them).

DCI's focus right now needs to be on cold hard cash for the member corps through growing audiences at summer events that the corps own and through finding a way to locate corporate sponsors. It is entirely possible (hell, likely!) that adding a summer band division with units competing at local shows would do that simply because local shows would have more parents coming to watch their kids, but if all we're doing is replacing 20 horn players from out of state with 20 woodwinds players from out of state, that would achieve nothing.

 

[JimF-LowBari]

34 minutes ago, rpbobcat said:

I find it interesting that,when you talk to people at drum corps competitions, a number of them are corps member parents

who only started following the activity because of their child.

They make it clear that their interest will end when their kid leaves.

Adding WW won't change that.

It also seems,based on purely empirical observations,that only a limited number of former 

corps members,become hard corps fans when they stop marching.

Again,adding WW won't change that either.

As I've posted,if marching band is so popular,why isn't there a Summer marching band

circuit,similar to drum corps.

As someone else posted,adding WW to Drum Corps has one big plus for show designers.

They can use the same design for their high school band and the corps they design for.

Given the number of "band people" designing for corps,what's not to love ?

At least for them.

 

 

Easier just to say why they love it... the kids in it..... As for designers, yep lot easier...

Nice way to keep activity going... until something else that hits the “kids” interest come along

Edited December 26, 2019 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:59 AM, Glenn426 said:

Here I thought I was being nice for holding the door, Didn't think it to be taken as an Insult.

But perhaps you are right, Perhaps DCP is the place of people who will never change their minds and are set in their ways, A Safe place where the norms are not challenged, and organic growth is frowned upon because the Donors/ Elders are the only ones that matter here. 

Reddit seems more my speed anyway, Anyone mind holding the door?

don't speak for everyone sparky. just sayin

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:10 AM, Slingerland said:

You're never going to address the financial realities, are ya? 

The corps can't afford to grow in size since every member costs them much more than they pay in tour fees and they're losing money as it is. There would be no noticeable uptick in ticket or media sales (if anything, it might decrease). The legacy fans who provide most of the charitable contributions that make drum corps viable now don't want it, and would be turned off by it. There is no chance that a major corporate sponsor will say "oh, they have woodwinds now? Let's sponsor the summer tour!"

Financially, it's a total loser of a proposition, and would provide nothing except for a few individuals to feel all virtuous about their "inclusiveness." I would suggest that those who want summer marching band talk to DCI about creating a division for them, and start building their own bands with their own free-standing non-profit orgs to sponsor them. Surely there must be at least 7 or 8 groups that would form. Let them have their own class championships during Finals week - in fact, go to three bands and nine corps for Finals night and call it a thing. 

Have the courage to run with your big idea and start it up from scratch, the way the founders of the corps did with their organizations. Problem solved!

i've brought that up in several threads. it's ignored on the boards tho in messages i'm told revenue is all the powers talk about...not the full financial picture

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/24/2019 at 5:51 PM, JimF-LowBari said:

None of which address why woodwinds should be added....

the only arguments was name calling and avoidance if serious questions. still waiting for a response to something i asked severalpages back.

 

but thats how trolls roll

Edited December 26, 2019 by Jeff Ream

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:11 PM, HockeyDad said:

The dying activity left me. I didn’t leave it. That might be why there’s a lack of care. You’re probably being sarcastic about the “dying activity “ thing though. 

no offense, as i'm not a woodwinds fan, but for someone that says it left you and you lack caring, you're sure on here a lot.....showing you care

[Jeff Ream]

18 hours ago, Newseditor44 said:

All of you that think Dan Acheson is driving this movement don’t understand the complexity of running an organization. While Dan has a role, I would argue that his is more fundraising and operations, with much less influence on the competition side.

Friends, a majority of what we’re seeing from the competition side comes from the corps and the people that run them. It’s feedback from their creative teams, consultants,  and vendors. These are the people working behind the scenes to influence the shape and direction of the activity for years to come.  If you want to blame people for the addition of woodwinds, strings, and other changes happening to the activity you need to begin to focus on the Board of Directors and people within the corps that make these decisions from a competitive level.

A majority of the reason that these decisions are being made cokes down to one thing... money. Designers are constantly trying to stretch the bounds and find new ways to design shows, and they see a benefit in working with vendors and consultants to help grow the activity. Vendors see the growth or marching band and will continue to push new instruments, sections, props, etc. Prop design and creation is now a multimillion dollar industry and they two have a seat at the table. More performers means more uniforms/costumes. And performers and parents are now accustomed to spending $5k-$10k per year on their experience. 

Bottom line, DCI and marching band have grown into a multimillion dollar train that is moving down the tracks at high speed. 

Woodwinds are definitely coming to drum corps and there is nothing that any of us can do about it. And I do not believe that a revolt is on the horizon either. It will be welcomed, there will be an adjustment period, and it will become the new norm. Fans will continue to go to shows, and there will be a new subset of fans who will be ushered into the Activity who will take the place of the people who leave the activity (which will be relatively small). 

guess we have to wait til Varsity buys a part of it

[Jeff Ream]

17 hours ago, Newseditor44 said:

They will, and it will stay that high moving forward. If travel sports can get away with charging that per season, so can DCI. >$1,000 tours are a thing of the past and will never happen again, at least for World Class tip 12 corps.

designers don't care about cost. that's someone else's job to figure out

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, Newseditor44 said:

Yes you do, but that’s not going to stop it. Whether it happens this year or 10 years from now, it’s going to happen. Maybe it starts as part of the front ensemble and grows over the years, or we add an instrument at a time (like saxophones) I am absolutely certain it’s going to happen. And it will happen sooner rather than later.

And I agree, it’s going to drive people away, just like electronics did (maybe a larger number of people) but it will also attract new fans and followers, including new band parents. So while you might think that threats of starting a mass exedos would curb the potential of bringing wood winds in, it won’t.

Don’t think that this is something that DCI takes lightly either. They’ve studied it, understand the potential impact both financially and from a fan standpoint. They’ve researched it to death. They know how they’ll market it, they know the potential impacts bit positive and negative. A decision this big will have solid research behind it. 

And as much as a bunch of hardcore fans like us might. It like it, I predict the next generation of fans won’t be as opposed to it as we are. 

i dont think they understand the impacts on a micro level. sure they see what could happen to the mothership. but not at the corps level when dollars disappear there, the cost of housing, food, fuel and insurance with more bodies. i truly don't believe anyone in DCI has truly done the due dilligence that deep. 

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, garfield said:

... So, it's a wash then, right?  Remember, the math of your excited expectation of new participants and fans extends only to replace those leaving.  And I think it's rarely true that someone not otherwise connected to the activity becomes a fan.  In fact, the ONLY such fan I've ever known in 45 years of following along is our very own N.E. Brigand.  If you ever have the chance to see his copious notes on the marching activity taken live from the stands, you can clearly tell that he's actually a one-in-a-bazillion case.

Your new band parent claim is also likely true; as MM rotate in and out it's reasonable to think new MM parents are replacing alumni parents who no longer go.  Any horn player that gets cut to make room for a WW makes the benefit of the WW a net wash to finances.  Your excited expectation of new, organic fans in addition to those who don't leave only adds to a positive net if the MM limit is raised to "make NEW room" for WWs (and their audition/tour/membership/education fees).  

I would contend that the drum corps' careful considerations as you imply will drive them to likely table the idea in all meaningful, non-marginal, ways until other requisites are considered "in place" even if the tabling lasts hours instead of months, seasons, or years.  The logistical requirements of what's being considered are substantial and need to be addressed before WW would reasonably be adopted by any corps.  Drum corps that initially may drool at the prospect of 50-odd new member dues can be quickly shaken back into reality by considering things like How does a typical drum corps show actually FIT seven or 8 more buses, plus new equipment trucks and kitchens, onto a typical HS stadium parking lot?  Where does a corps actually PUT the extra 50 MMs in the host school?  In the cafeteria?  Schools charge rent by areas needed.  Plus more driver rooms and a litany of other issues I suspect Ream is about to regale...  Ding, ding, ding...that's the expense bill increasing.  LOTS to be seriously considered before any of this is as certain as you suggest.

Also, I'll challenge your seeming certainty of the eventual outcome.  Besides wondering if you can tell me when it will snow in central Ohio next or, better, the winning lottery numbers or where the stock market will close in February (or TODAY even!), I also wonder if the "signature sound" of some corps will be changed to adopt the shaky benefit of clarinets or marching flutes.  It's entirely possible the saturation point has been reached and that there's a greater concern now of the activity "jumping the shark" into irrelevance by making massive changes like this with unproven and only-hoped-for benefits (I'm hopeful that those tendencies were pushed out of the activity like so many recent directors and old guard).  Besides, increasing the number of performers also increases the revenue if all of those new MMs are horn players, too.  Anyone going to complain about another 50 horns in Crown's brass line?

 

the stock market will close on Wall Street in New York City.

 

 

you're welcome