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Disturbing DCI rumors

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2 hours ago, Fred Windish said:

Thanks, Jeff!  There was a serious component to my previous post. I was confident you were in best position to weigh-in. You confirm my suspicion.

those who don't share your views ignore it, as it's been said elsewhere too.

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22 hours ago, Fred Windish said:

JUST CURIOUS . . . 

As I don’t participate in Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. and make Drum Corps Planet my only message board source,  has there been any chatter of excitement from what we believe to be young woodwind players?  I surely haven’t seen any evidence of that here on DCP. 

Anyone read a few “Geez, this would be cool if it passes. I always wanted to do DCI as a woodwind player!”

 

Are accordion players piz’d they’re not being included?  (asking for a Mummer)  😝

 

I have not heard ANY positive comments from anyone on the inclusion of woodwinds, including from the many young DCI-age kids I know.  Even all the woodwind players I know who aspire to one day march DCI don't like the idea of ww.  The only positive comments I have heard are from the few folks here on DCP who favor marching band.  But... Was this not the same for electronics?  Same for trombones/french horn/etc?  Was there an outcry from marching members to add this stuff?  Outcry from audience that we must include this extra stuff?  No.  If kids seemed to want this, or audiences were excited for the changes, I'd understand.  But, nobody seems for this- like most the changes that have made it marching band and taken the "drum & bugle" out of it.

Edited by Guitar1974
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9 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

i don't have names, just hunches

I don't know who the movers and shakers of DCI are these days, but if there's anyone left with an ounce of business acumen they won't do it.  

But maybe they think they can replace us with piccolo parents.  

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1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said:

I don't know who the movers and shakers of DCI are these days, but if there's anyone left with an ounce of business acumen they won't do it.  

But maybe they think they can replace us with piccolo parents.  

There never was.

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On 1/8/2020 at 5:01 PM, Guitar1974 said:

I have not heard ANY positive comments from anyone on the inclusion of woodwinds, including from the many young DCI-age kids I know.  Even all the woodwind players I know who aspire to one day march DCI don't like the idea of ww.  The only positive comments I have heard are from the few folks here on DCP who favor marching band.  But... Was this not the same for electronics?  Same for trombones/french horn/etc?  Was there an outcry from marching members to add this stuff?  Outcry from audience that we must include this extra stuff?  No.  If kids seemed to want this, or audiences were excited for the changes, I'd understand.  But, nobody seems for this- like most the changes that have made it marching band and taken the "drum & bugle" out of it.

My kid is of DCI age and will be marching this summer.  The friend circle, which includes both brass and woodwinds,  was opposed to adding woodwinds.   In fact, the woodwind players were more gung ho about learning a brass instrument to audition than just adding their own primary instrument. 

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6 minutes ago, Kashi said:

My kid is of DCI age and will be marching this summer.  The friend circle, which includes both brass and woodwinds,  was opposed to adding woodwinds.   In fact, the woodwind players were more gung ho about learning a brass instrument to audition than just adding their own primary instrument. 

I think the general consensus from current marching members (granted that's only 5 people this coming season) was that DCI is only DCI sans-woodwinds. I still feel like it's the same as it was in the 80's when I marched, which is to say "If you want to march DCI, pick up an instrument that's part of the existing ensemble and put in the work to learn it." I don't feel like that's a prejudice. Things have rules that make up the framework of the activity. If you play american soccer, you don't use your hands (unless you're the goalie.) If you want to use your hands, choose a different sport or gain the skills necessary to compete within the context of the activity. 

I would like to think that most kids who would have the skills to march at the DCI level would be able to pick up a new instrument fairly quickly and work their way up into a corps. The kids now seem to have pretty high skill sets already. Just my opinion though. 

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maybe woodwinds has nothing to do with an artistic/creative/programming desire? maybe its aims are 1) increase number of woman members and 2) increase number of members ergo increase number of tickets sold?

if you added woodwinds, you might increase the max corps size to 200. that would be 1200 or so new world class members. if each members accounts for some number of ticket sales during the season, then  may be a way to increase tickets sales?

$$$ impact on corps - if average annual fee = $3500 and the average cost per member to be on tour is say just under $2000.... that looks to be an upside for the corps...the cost per member for tour included transportation so ignore number of buses....there would be other cost  that would eat into that net for the corps - equipment, uniform, etc.  On the dci side, there would be increases the cost to house corps on tour and increased difficult in locating places to house corps etc. the increase in logistics complexity would be challenging.

on the gender mix side -- at the scholastic level, the male/female mix in woodwinds 75%-25%.. at the university level it is closer to 55%-45%... so maybe someone decided that adding woodwinds wasn't going to attract a lot of scholastic woodwind player but was really going to attract male university age woodwind players, not woman from that 75% segment in scholastic band... remember -- world class average age is more than 19.5 and more than 80% of world class members are post-scholastic/high school.....
 

is that possible that the woodwind issue isn't being driven by the corps or the creative community?

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, stevedci said:

maybe woodwinds has nothing to do with an artistic/creative/programming desire? maybe its aims are 1) increase number of woman members and 2) increase number of members ergo increase number of tickets sold?

if you added woodwinds, you might increase the max corps size to 200. that would be 1200 or so new world class members. if each members accounts for some number of ticket sales during the season, then  may be a way to increase tickets sales?

$$$ impact on corps - if average annual fee = $3500 and the average cost per member to be on tour is say just under $2000.... that looks to be an upside for the corps...the cost per member for tour included transportation so ignore number of buses....there would be other cost  that would eat into that net for the corps - equipment, uniform, etc.  On the dci side, there would be increases the cost to house corps on tour and increased difficult in locating places to house corps etc. the increase in logistics complexity would be challenging.

on the gender mix side -- at the scholastic level, the male/female mix in woodwinds 75%-25%.. at the university level it is closer to 55%-45%... so maybe someone decided that adding woodwinds wasn't going to attract a lot of scholastic woodwind player but was really going to attract male university age woodwind players, not woman from that 75% segment in scholastic band... remember -- world class average age is more than 19.5 and more than 80% of world class members are post-scholastic/high school.....
 

is that possible that the woodwind issue isn't being driven by the corps or the creative community?

 

 

 

Look at 990 filings. For most corps, member fees do not cover their percentage of costs. Adding members will likely mean more infrastructure which will increase the cost / member. If there were no additional costs per member and those members brought in new contributions, then it could be about the money. A more effective means of gaining new revenue would be to ask prospective members if they have any wealthy relatives.

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5 minutes ago, cybersnyder said:

Look at 990 filings. For most corps, member fees do not cover their percentage of costs. Adding members will likely mean more infrastructure which will increase the cost / member. If there were no additional costs per member and those members brought in new contributions, then it could be about the money. A more effective means of gaining new revenue would be to ask prospective members if they have any wealthy relatives.

So just out of curiosity (and this may have already been answered and I'm just too lazy to find it,) what is the draw for major marching band shows like both live and with streaming? From what many here are saying (and it makes sense,) the potential revenue gained is FAR outweighed by the cost of adding additional housing, transportation, staff, food and uniform costs. So the corps lose money no matter what it seems. The only angle I can see (and we don't have to worry about it again until 2022,) would be if the crowd sizes in the stands and online are so amazingly high, that additional shows could be added to increase corps revenue. Someone who follows this stuff more closely than I do would have to clue me in. 

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And if corps go to 200 then add higher costs of transportation, meal facilities, instruments, unis, volunteers, more staff (techs), etc.

Thennnnn there is the hosing and rehearsal facility issue.... each year some corps go scrambling to find a school for a major show (DCI East anyone?). Add 50+ more (members, staff, volunteers) wandering the facility and people controlling access are more likely to say no.

But if powers that be only look at higher income then everyone is fat, dumb and happy until crap hits the fan

Edited by JimF-LowBari

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