Jeff Ream Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeRapp said: Okay but if 55 isn’t the line, what is? You have to draw a line somewhere. 55 is a single full bus. If you can’t fill one bus, can you honestly make it on a tour? Seems like the more important question is, did someone make a mistake by approving them to move up from Soundsport? It looks like they missed some pretty important factors in their evaluation. Amount of bodies on the field isn’t the sole reason a corps can or can’t tour. Usually the reasons that cause your issues are adult made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, MikeRapp said: Seems like the more important question is, did someone make a mistake by approving them to move up from Soundsport? It looks like they missed some pretty important factors in their evaluation. I don't think this is the case. In fact, it appears they checked off almost all of the boxes to demonstrate their ability to handle logistics. But, two questions arise: Can they scale the success to handle a tour of a full bus of kids and can they actually attract those kids? It's laudable that they figured out the logistics of travel and care for 35 kids. Unfortunately, if 20 more kids aren't attracted into signing up, all that touring skill is not worth much. Edited January 1, 2020 by garfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeRapp said: Seems like the more important question is, did someone make a mistake by approving them to move up from Soundsport? It looks like they missed some pretty important factors in their evaluation. They marched 80 members in 2018, according to the DCI announcement of them being approved for Open class in 2019. The approval in and of itself was a rather limited "first step" kind of thing. From the Encorps announcement on page 1 of this thread... "To approve Encorps for participation in DCI’s Open Class for the 2019 Season for no more than 5 single day trips. There will be further evaluation for any continued participation following the 2019 season" I do not see a timeline on that subsequent DCI evaluation, or how it was to be handled by both DCI and Encorps. I know Encorps made some important admin changes in September/October. That may have had some impact on the post-season evaluation, but that is just speculation. DCI Encorps Announcement April 3, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, garfield said: All of these "precedents" are not. They are major changes that affected all WC corps. Those are not precedents for how DCI notifies groups attempting to gain membership what the rules and requirements are to do so. The sin of unpublished processes is only outdone by the entrenched presumptions of precedent. I did not intend to belabor this point, but... alright, then. 1. What is the rush? Why not just have 55/110 minimums take effect in 2021 instead of 2020? 2. Why should only member corps be given time to adjust to major changes? How is it wise to subject non-member corps to the destabilizing effects of major changes without that time to plan and adjust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybersnyder Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, cixelsyd said: I did not intend to belabor this point, but... alright, then. 1. What is the rush? Why not just have 55/110 minimums take effect in 2021 instead of 2020? 2. Why should only member corps be given time to adjust to major changes? How is it wise to subject non-member corps to the destabilizing effects of major changes without that time to plan and adjust? 1. Because next year it will be another rule or another corps. 2. They shouldn't, but the rules that would affect them are likely more major rule changes. A 55 member minimum isn't that high of a threshold. DCI wants a quality product on the field and with 30 member corps, it's going to be 8-10 color guard, 10 percussion, 10-12 horns. That just doesn't have the draw for ticket-paying fans. So they owe it to the fans and the other member corps that there will be a quality, entertaining show on the field. Some rules physically take more than a year to implement. Which rule(s) specifically are you speaking of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, cixelsyd said: I did not intend to belabor this point, but... alright, then. 1. What is the rush? Why not just have 55/110 minimums take effect in 2021 instead of 2020? 2. Why should only member corps be given time to adjust to major changes? How is it wise to subject non-member corps to the destabilizing effects of major changes without that time to plan and adjust? Belabor away! I don't think it's a rush to them; it only seems a rush to you. Honest, 55/110 has been a topic since the days of the "Get Better" G7 mantra. I'm guessing they've talked it to death, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten ratification from the membership. Umm... if there's no distinction between Member corps and Non-Member corps, what's the point of having Membership to begin with? As the old Amex card commercial used to say: "Membership has its privileges" And, I'm sorry, I know it sounds cruel, but "destabilization" can happen with a mismatch between what the member corps want to present at a show and what the OC and SS participants view as an opportunity. I'm not sure that DCI has that figured out yet with SS and all, but I do know that, at the moment, their directives are not the same. I'm convinced that the DCI member corps want more competition, not less. They might disagree with what it takes to get that. But, at least, it seems everyone want more participant corps to present more competition for the fan base to pay more for............................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, garfield said: Umm... if there's no distinction between Member corps and Non-Member corps, what's the point of having Membership to begin with? As the old Amex card commercial used to say: "Membership has its privileges" Sorry. Did not realize fair play was one of the "privileges" reserved for members only. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 6 hours ago, garfield said: From the Encorps post: "...we finally received confirmation and written documentation in a direct email from a corps director that stated as follows: “The Membership Affairs Committee just ratified by the Membership that the minimum is now 55 members. The policy is 216 - Participant Levels – and is housed in the Policy and Procedures folder under Corporate documents in Backstage." There is a conflict right there. Why is the Membership Affairs Committee overstepping their mandate and changing rules? DCI already has another committee for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 37 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: There is a conflict right there. Why is the Membership Affairs Committee overstepping their mandate and changing rules? DCI already has another committee for that. The charter of the Membership Affairs Committee includes the mandate to gather/maintain/prioritize a list of issues and present them to the membership for approval/implementation. That is what seems to have happened here where is says “The Membership Affairs Committee just ratified by the Membership that the minimum is now 55 members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybersnyder Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: Sorry. Did not realize fair play was one of the "privileges" reserved for members only. You're determined that there is a vast conspiracy. Encorps went from 60 something to 30 something members between 2018 and 2019. There are internal issues going on, not the evil all-powerful iron fist of DCI member corps, but it sound scarier that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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