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30 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

Almost every corps lives within 100 miles of 30 parades every year, and they always need 'bands' - no need for housing if it's a two hour bus ride.

There is no money to be made from doing drum corps performances; even the WC corps actually lose money each show, since their transportation and food costs for the day usually dwarf the performance fee.

But the transportation costs do not drop to zero and people still need to eat. When they get back, they still need a place to sleep. I just don't see where a WC corps will save money versus doing what they really want to do - play on the field or hone their show on the practice field. An OC corps or DCA corps with a more local presence could meet in the morning, go parading and then send people home at night. Then parades might be more profitable, especially if they could have everyone meet at the parade and only need an equipment truck. Getting four buses on a holiday weekend for 50 miles each way is going to cost $6k if not more. 

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1 hour ago, Slingerland said:

Almost every corps lives within 100 miles of 30 parades every year, and they always need 'bands' - no need for housing if it's a two hour bus ride.

There is no money to be made from doing drum corps performances; even the WC corps actually lose money each show, since their transportation and food costs for the day usually dwarf the performance fee.

Seriously, OC corps make something like $750 if they do a WC gig.  That's not unimportant money but, in the scope of what it takes to do a tour, it's not even close to significant.  Do four shows per season for, what, less than ten-grand in appearance fees?

Performance opportunities at DCI shows are not the lifeblood of a new org trying to prove their abilities as corps manager and staff.  

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2 hours ago, cybersnyder said:

But the transportation costs do not drop to zero and people still need to eat. When they get back, they still need a place to sleep. I just don't see where a WC corps will save money versus doing what they really want to do - play on the field or hone their show on the practice field. An OC corps or DCA corps with a more local presence could meet in the morning, go parading and then send people home at night. Then parades might be more profitable, especially if they could have everyone meet at the parade and only need an equipment truck. Getting four buses on a holiday weekend for 50 miles each way is going to cost $6k if not more. 

I was only speaking about OC corps re: parades as a viable option, specifically an OC corps that doesn't have enough people to compete with the DCI requirements, like, y'know, the corps this thread is about.  😎

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On 12/28/2019 at 10:42 AM, Dchristian125 said:

I agree that the issue is very old but I do believe that in the case of encorps, we are finally seeing direct proof of what is going on behind the scenes with regards to open class treatment. Without an open class, there is no world class. And by the looks of things, DCI is about to have nearly half of its open class corps population wiped out by its abrupt and one sided policies combined with the negligence of DCI to help guide and support open class corps growth. That’s the main problem seen specifically outlined in Encorps Facebook post.

 

Even if some open class corps survive this, which I’m pretty sure there will be a few, Dci and its structure will turn into DCA where the big boys are all showcased and given praise and attention whilst the underdogs/open class are so small in numbers it brings into question why we should even have divisions.

Herein lies part of the issue.  Let's take Cascades - their camps start significantly later than most of the other corps due to the school schedule in the Pacific Northwest.  Therefore, some corps are in to their first performance while Seattle Cascades have only been in Spring Training for a week (if that).  That is a HUGE gap to overcome!  Their time to clean, perfect, and perform is significantly reduced due to this schedule - it would make very little sense to go East to turn around and come back West.  That's a long trip!  So not only do they need to attract members at an increased cost due to increased travel costs (it takes forever to get anywhere), they also must do so with the reputation of consistently being in the bottom of the pack.  It isn't that the members aren't passionate about what they do, they just have a few more mountains to climb so-to-speak.  ...but we don't talk about that.

On 12/28/2019 at 3:52 PM, karuna said:

If you accept the proposition that "Open Class" is the nursery ground for new World Class corps then one might expect DCI to be more nurturing. 

Sure.  World Class corps are only interested in themselves (DCI is the corps, blah, blah, blah). 

But DCI should actively want the activity to grow.  Their behavior with regard to Encorps would seem to contradict that goal.  

So either (a) DCI is so poorly run that they can't give timely responses or (b) DCI is not truly interested in expanding at all.  

 

Open Class is often the place where kids gets hooked on drum corps.  It gives members that might not have the opportunity otherwise to march and fall in love with an activity that many of us have had the experience to enjoy.  It helps them build confidence and they look at the WC members with awe and wonder.  In a few years, they decide "Hey, I want to try that WC thing!" and off they go!  

4 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

I don't think we ever marched 55 members, but we threw it down every night.

We used to say we performed with enough confidence that we didn't need 100 people backing us up.

There are some WC corps (and very old, historical OC corps - to Garfield's point) who have off years, rough financial years, etc.  This new policy leaves very little room for those rough years & creates situations where some of our currently successful WC corps would not be here today.  THAT is concerning.  Not to mention, I have seen some 40 member corps perform the pants off some shows.  It's harder to perform with fewer people because the flaws stand out more.  

1 hour ago, garfield said:

Seriously, OC corps make something like $750 if they do a WC gig.  That's not unimportant money but, in the scope of what it takes to do a tour, it's not even close to significant.  Do four shows per season for, what, less than ten-grand in appearance fees?

Performance opportunities at DCI shows are not the lifeblood of a new org trying to prove their abilities as corps manager and staff.  

It's $700 and it's worth it to every single one of the open class members who get to warm-up next to the Blue Devils, or the Blue Knights, or the Boston Crusaders, or the Bluecoats.  Sometimes things are worth more than the money they provide.  It's about the experience and the fact that the members from those top Corps love giving back.  Corps who have that passion will find a way to make that $700 work.  If DCI takes that opportunity away by regulating a 55 member minimum (which is a full-bus), then they are limiting the success & growth of both open and world class.  Open class deserves more respect than what you are giving them.

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14 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

I was only speaking about OC corps re: parades as a viable option, specifically an OC corps that doesn't have enough people to compete with the DCI requirements, like, y'know, the corps this thread is about.  😎

You did mention WC corps money earlier, thus my confusion. 

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On 12/28/2019 at 9:24 AM, cybersnyder said:

I get that DCI doesn’t want to dedicate a lot of resources to smaller corps. But if you can’t field 55 members, I wonder how serious your organization really is.

Try it sometime....get back to me.

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19 minutes ago, 84BDsop said:

Try it sometime....get back to me.

No thanks. But you have to set a threshold for what people are going to pay to see. 

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1 hour ago, wolfgang said:

How large was Academie Musicale when they made top 25 in 1990?

35 if memory serve me well

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Some people may think having a smaller corps is the result of a lack of competence or effort. It is not! 

Every corps face a very different set of chalenges. Looking at smaller corps... many production were better performed, more entertaining and better received than much bigger units  

Corps in some region might come out with 100+ members easily  

Some corps are just born in region where the music programs are more vivid and better supported by school, government and population  

What do you do with a smaller corps that over achived on all aspects require by DCI but wouldn’t get 100 members even if they paid them a 1000$ for being teach by university teachers for the summer? 

Sometime you have to stop trying to find wrong doing and accept that corps face different challenges  

For corps with fewers members, going soundsport isn’t the solution    It’s making the difficulty much bigger to overcome  

There are so many members from those small corps that went on to march world class, then become avid DCI supporters. The impact is well over 7 figures in revenues for DCI over the years  

None of those tickets, shirt sales, dvd, followers would be there without those corps. And most of those corps would not exist if not allowed to do the real thing  

Is it really only about size?

 

 

 

 

 

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