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Someone can correct if this is not accurate, but in the 80s, I believe Boston Crusaders were known simply as Boston for a few years. In 1983, a search of archives shows a 21st place finish in Semis.

Was that the year they had 50-something members and always competed in World Class ( which at that time was known as Open Class.)

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1 hour ago, rjohn76 said:

All competitive rule changes must go through the process outlined in the bylaws. 

The key is... this isn't a competitive rule.  While it most certainly could have an impact on the competitive nature of the activity, this would fall under the policies & procedures necessary to be a member/participant in DCI.  Establishing those policies/procedures falls under the scope of the Board of Directors:

Based upon that, plus the section in the policy & procedure manual that grants the board the right to establish new/revised policies & procedures necessary, there really wasn't a need for this matter to go to the January meeting for a vote.  If the committees did their job when drafting the recommended new polices for the Board of Directors, the new policies should represent the vast majority of the organizations that are members/participants in DCI.  

Now that said, it's my opinion that DCI should have put out some type of communication indicating that the Policy & Procedures manual had been updated, and been available to clarify any changes if necessary.

I do not know how to make this any more clear.

Corps minimum size is a rule.  It says so in the rules manual.  It is on page 1, not hard to find.

The rule change process may be "outlined" in the bylaws, but it is spelled out in full detail in the rules manual.  That is on pages 13-16.  You cannot change the rules manual without following the process defined within it.

 

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32 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

I do not know how to make this any more clear.

Corps minimum size is a rule.  It says so in the rules manual.  It is on page 1, not hard to find.

The rule change process may be "outlined" in the bylaws, but it is spelled out in full detail in the rules manual.  That is on pages 13-16.  You cannot change the rules manual without following the process defined within it.

 

I believe you are correct, but I'm not sure what impact your being correct actually has.  Imagine the other way...

The rule to be implemented with the 2020 season impacts Encorps now, in 2019, in auditions, commitments, planning, etc.  But, as you are surely correct, the rule was changed in October in writing in the manual because the issue is already agreed upon; the Janual will only be the place that it's codified.

I surely don't speak for DCI but I do know this is a small club, a clique, a group of people and they talk among themselves all the time.  Multiple meetings, multiple phone conferences, Board member changes, video conferences...  I think it's possible, no - probable although I have no knowledge particularly, that they agreed to it sometime during the year, agreed to put it in the book and abide by it for 2020, and vote to ratify it at the Janual.

I'm Schultz and I know almost nothing, but I'd sure bet that the member corps already had the 55 min decision made and charged the Executive with alerting the OC coordinator and then all of the units involved.  Hard for me to believe that this was really a secret that caught Encorps and the others off-guard.

EDIT: And I don't think there's some malicious intent to do harm by withholding key and critical information from OC participant corps.

Edited by garfield

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1 hour ago, wolfgang said:

Someone can correct if this is not accurate, but in the 80s, I believe Boston Crusaders were known simply as Boston for a few years. In 1983, a search of archives shows a 21st place finish in Semis.

Was that the year they had 50-something members and always competed in World Class ( which at that time was known as Open Class.)

Too many issues to go through here as to why Boston Crusaders were Boston for a while, but suffice it to say there were a number of legal reasons for doing so.  After 1982, BAC was about done.  They were able to return to the field and compete as "Boston" in 1983.  In 1983 "Boston" had 51 MM's and made DCI Associate Member.  That began a very very long journey back, regaining the the legal use of their name "Boston Crusaders", culminating in making DCI Finals in 1999 and BAC has been in Finals ever since.  The point of that, relative to this thread, is that although they were small, they were competitive enough to obtain Associate Membership.  I believe at the time, the smallest corps to ever do so.  They did not have many shows and didn't get out until after July 4th.  If I remember correctly.

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23 minutes ago, LabMaster said:

Too many issues to go through here as to why Boston Crusaders were Boston for a while, but suffice it to say there were a number of legal reasons for doing so.  After 1982, BAC was about done.  They were able to return to the field and compete as "Boston" in 1983.  In 1983 "Boston" had 51 MM's and made DCI Associate Member.   

The point of that, relative to this thread, is that although they were small, they were competitive enough to obtain Associate Membership.  I believe at the time, the smallest corps to ever do so.

I mentioned Academie Musicale '90 and Boston '83 to point out the irony of two top 25 corps (in an era with lots more total corps than 2020) that would not even be allowed to see the field today.

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4 minutes ago, garfield said:

I believe you are correct, but I'm not sure what impact your being correct actually has.  Imagine the other way...

The rule to be implement with the 2020 season impacts Encorps now, in 2019, in auditions, commitments, planning.  But, as you are surely correct, the rule was changed in October in writing in the manual because the issue is already agreed upon; the Janual will only be the place that it's codified.

I surely don't speak for DCI but I do know this is a small club, a clique, a group of people and they talk among themselves all the time.  Multiple meetings, multiple phone conferences, Board member changes, video conferences...  I think it's possible, no - probable although I have no knowledge particularly, that they agreed to it sometime during the year, agreed to put it in the book and abide by it for 2020, and vote to ratify it at the Janual.

I'm Schultz and I know almost nothing, but I'd sure bet that the member corps already had the 55 min decision made and charged the Executive with alerting the OC coordinator and then all of the units involved.  Hard for me to believe that this was really a secret that caught Encorps and the others off-guard.

Rules matter.  Here is why:

1.  They can only change in January of an even-numbered year.

2.  Rule changes with significant impact on planning for the current even-numbered season should be (and usually are) deferred, to take effect for the following season.

These are not small matters.  A DCI title contender once had their season erased after losing a court battle with DCI over a change in the rule manual.

Even the smallest corps has to establish significant funding, hire staff, design a show, purchase equipment/uniforms/etc., coax other adults to volunteer, rent vehicles, line up housing, and recruit several dozen kids to commit significant time/effort/money to their corps and their schedule - every season, starting the previous August if not earlier.  To pursue all those things based on the prevailing rules, only to have those rules changed in the middle of that effort, can be devastating.

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1 hour ago, LabMaster said:

Too many issues to go through here as to why Boston Crusaders were Boston for a while, but suffice it to say there were a number of legal reasons for doing so.  After 1982, BAC was about done.  They were able to return to the field and compete as "Boston" in 1983.  In 1983 "Boston" had 51 MM's and made DCI Associate Member.  That began a very very long journey back, regaining the the legal use of their name "Boston Crusaders", culminating in making DCI Finals in 1999 and BAC has been in Finals ever since.  The point of that, relative to this thread, is that although they were small, they were competitive enough to obtain Associate Membership.  I believe at the time, the smallest corps to ever do so.  They did not have many shows and didn't get out until after July 4th.  If I remember correctly.

anything 1983 has no bearing on this

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2 hours ago, garfield said:

And I don't think there's some malicious intent to do harm by withholding key and critical information from OC participant corps.

Yes, Hanlon's Razor presumably applies here.

"Wait, I thought you were telling Encorps about the new minimum size rule in 2020 that will be confirmed in January. You thought I was telling them? Dang! Better tell them now. Are there any other corps we forgot to inform?"

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7 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Yes, Hanlon's Razor presumably applies here.

"Wait, I thought you were telling Encorps about the new minimum size rule in 2020 that will be confirmed in January. You thought I was telling them? Dang! Better tell them now. Are there any other corps we forgot to inform?"

Sounds like my late mother in law running things. “Well I knew what time you were supposed to be here....”. Unspoken “why didn’t you know?”

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9 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Yes, Hanlon's Razor presumably applies here.

"Wait, I thought you were telling Encorps about the new minimum size rule in 2020 that will be confirmed in January. You thought I was telling them? Dang! Better tell them now. Are there any other corps we forgot to inform?"

2 questions - did Encorps attend the Open Class meetings in 2019? Did they provide adequate financials to gain approval to be a touring corps? 

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