N.E. Brigand Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 What does "Open Class Grand Finalist Corps" mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Just now, Slingerland said: I disagree. The rules as stated by DCI do not offer a carve-out for unaffiliated Directors (which is Ms Black's fundamental role on the DCI Board) to offer competitive rules changes. She is not a judge, not an individual whose proposal was sponsored by a qualified member as defined by the rules, not a staff member or instructor - she fits none of the classifications outlined as persons qualified to propose changes. I wouldn't be surprised to see the proposal shelved early on in part because of its failure to meet the standards. And I wouldn't be surprised if the membership voted to make an exception and allow the vote to proceed, even if it wasn't submitted properly (as it seems not to have been). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amil Muzz Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, garfield said: No, the point is to reach more kids who CAN afford to march. And I think you're wrong; from a pure value standpoint, drum corps is a documentably cheap musical experience and resume-booster. Increasing the marching fees by as much as 40% would still leave it that way. And, don't kid yourself - if drum corps charges ANYTHING to march, it is exclusionary. There are now performers who can't afford a single dollar of tour fees. Right, more kids that CAN afford it. Money, more and more money. Cheap experience? I couldn’t have afforded it, let alone march for 6 seasons. I have heard that argument before, and DONT BUY IT. I am sure there are performers who can’t afford it. That is by far the minority. By. Far. I guess we can agree to disagree. But I watched the change. I was there in the trenches. Where I worked there wasn’t any mercy for kids who couldn’t afford it. Kids who 20 years ago could have done it. That’s a fact, chum. Drum Corps is an activity for the top 10%. I have heard that with my own ears come out of the face of a prominent person, very prominent in DCI’s leadership. That’s what drum corps is now. FACT. By design. I also heard the same person say “That’s what SoundSport is for, for kid who can’t afford the World Class experience.” Drum Corps used to be exclusive to those who had the grit to do it. Now, to those who can afford it. Sorry, that’s the way it is, again, by design. 6 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Amil Muzz said: Right, more kids that CAN afford it. Money, more and more money. Cheap experience? I couldn’t have afforded it, let alone march for 6 seasons. I have heard that argument before, and DONT BUY IT. I am sure there are performers who can’t afford it. That is by far the minority. By. Far. I guess we can agree to disagree. But I watched the change. I was there in the trenches. Where I worked there wasn’t any mercy for kids who couldn’t afford it. Kids who 20 years ago could have done it. That’s a fact, chum. Drum Corps is an activity for the top 10%. I have heard that with my own ears come out of the face of a prominent person, very prominent in DCI’s leadership. That’s what drum corps is now. FACT. By design. I also heard the same person say “That’s what SoundSport is for, for kid who can’t afford the World Class experience.” Drum Corps used to be exclusive to those who had the grit to do it. Now, to those who can afford it. Sorry, that’s the way it is, again, by design. That’s so ironic considering why drum corps was started in the first place. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amil Muzz Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said: That’s so ironic considering why drum corps was started in the first place. I grew up in Casper. Mr. Jones started touring to give kids in Casper the opportunity to travel who would have probably never had that experience. It is ironic. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 46 minutes ago, Amil Muzz said: Drum Corps used to be exclusive to those who had the grit to do it. Absolutely! Soloist who could play over a brass section and actually fill a stadium without a microphone and amplification. Those poor hobby players were a special breed. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Year Fiver Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, 2muchcoffeeman said: That works only if you intend to increase the size of the unit beyond the current 154-member limit. Otherwise, any flute you add is a bass drummer you need to cut. Net result: Same number of people experiencing the life-enriching benefits. I don't detect anything in the proposal that would increase the number of performers allowed on the field -- as if the already brutal economics of drum corps could even survive it. Without a proposal to increase the size of competing units, the stated rationale is an empty platitude. A tangent from the original discussion, but "increase the 154" is only well and good until you've actually worked support staff and logistics for a corps. 154 fits neatly onto four buses with just enough seats left over for alternates and equipment, so any additional bodies would require at least one additional bus, and empty seats is a wasted investment in a vehicle. Making ~250 servings per meal is already a gargantuan task for a single two-oven food truck as it is, so increasing the maximum by any more than a few bodies would require either a second food truck or a radical restructuring of how meals work (and we were already making so much progress away from pizza/hotdog/spaghetti rotations!), plus almost every corps is already consistently short on volunteers as it is. And since the max capacity of a food truck fridge and pantry are already limited, you would either have to invest in more vehicles with fridges/usable space or you would have to go on even more frequent shopping runs, which are a huge drain on admin time. You might also potentially have to think about throwing in an extra equipment truck if you get too big or have too much equipment to transport, and all these vehicles really add up, what with gas, number of drivers available (never enough), chartering, and maintenance. The logistics surrounding parking at shows is also quite a nightmare at some venues, and that's something I've heard firsthand from somebody who does do that job for DCI. Staff, admin, and volunteers already get shoehorned into practice rooms, classrooms, hallways, locker rooms, and all kinds of other less-than-ideal sleeping situations as it is, because even the schools that are willing to house 200+ people only have so many nice, open areas they can offer forth or are otherwise willing to risk damage to, so loss of housing sites and dramatically increased difficulty of finding places for everybody to sleep is also a consideration. Without a proposal to bring in fresh volunteer/support staff faces, aid in funding for the extra expenses, and ease the massive burden that logistics already pose, advocating for an increase to the size of competing units is an empty platitude. Not to mention that growing corps that already have too many auditionees to handle does nothing about prospective memberships' disinterest in the other corps that are barely making numbers as-is. Edited January 4, 2020 by Year Fiver meant two-oven trucks, not four 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 hours ago, garfield said: "...from within the stands." It may be my great anticipation that the judging system will be changed to eliminate "playing to the box" to appeal to a greater number in the stands, but, could this be a prelude? no because it'll still be from the box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 hours ago, garfield said: Actually, it's just the opposite. It's not likely that clarinets will replace any one section, it is true that "making room" for WW will likely cut an, otherwise, fully qualified participant. If you put some of them with a group of WW newly-entering the activity (and the battery and pit, but maybe fewer of them), and presuming you can get 55 of them in one place, you have the makings of a new drum corps just waiting for an ambitious team to take up the challenge, or for an existing corps to justify starting feeder programs in the lower classes. I believe Any Instrument with NO increase in MM maximums is the only way new participants and new revenue are possible from changing the allowable instrumentation. any instrument is the gateway to making the maximum number of members to 200ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 7 hours ago, xandandl said: Some joke that the D in DCP stands for Dinos, but quick reviews of other discussion sites/platforms, etc. about the proposed changes don't differ widely from the feelings expressed on DCP threads that the Black mark proposal by Kathy is not worthy of passing, the electronics/amping/soundscapes are worthy of good discussion, color guard judging is getting mixed reactions, limiting judging to 6 off the field is not being positively backed, and other tweeking is worthy of review. Boomers, millenials, geriatrics, and cmms don't seem to be that different from the fmms, alumni, donors, and thread posters here. Look for yourself. agreed. i have seen people of all age groups, including current corps members speaking out against woodwinds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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