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1965 Chicago Royal Airs


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23 hours ago, old vanguard said:

The E rotary attachments were not allowed. I am well aware of F  and F# rotaries, having played both of them at various times. 

There were several corps who used t E rotaries on their bass baritones. Cambridge Caballeros, Cavaliers, Royal Airs, Geneva Appleknockers come immediately to mind.

I was a Mel Tierney, Skokie, Chicago, Lincolnwood Vanguard, and was on staff with the Des Plaines Vanguard.

Ah-ha! You clearly have the inside track on this, and the pedigree to go with it; cheating by technology, just like baseball. "Say it ain't so, Truman."

So let's see...An "E" rotary would lower the pitch by a step and a half. Play a C, get an A, technically available by playing a B and extending the slide all the way out, though cumbersome and not really in tune.

Play a B, get an Ab. OK, now that was "illegal" for certain. But there's a trade off. A slip slide could render a Bb but the E rotor could not, so you'd lose that pitch.

Likewise, starting on the open G below, the illegal rotor could give one an E, but the F# would be lost. The valve could produce the D below that, and used in combo with the trick rotor, you'd get a B, but that would have been available anyway by pulling a slide from low C.

A big enough mouthpiece and sufficient breath support could produce the G below that using the valve. Add the cheater rotor, get an E, but these notes were pretty stuffy at that depth.

Really proficient Bass Bari players could render the pedal C with authority. For proof, listen to Ted Sasso and Bill Fulsom at the final cadence of the into to "Walk with God", St. Catherine's Queensmen at Carnegie Hall, 1962.

http://fleetwoodsounds.com/1962-an-evening-with-the-corps-at-carnegie-hall-vol-1/

The E rotor, by itself, was a wash, since it "lost" as many pitches as it gained, more or less, BUT, if a line had 3 players on a bass bari part who understood the term "hocket" and had E, F and F# rotors among them you could outfox the other arrangers. But I wonder if it would have really been worth all the work.

Edited by ironlips
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Excellent post. Thanks.

I have Getzen. Baritone in my collection, complete with an E attachment. It enables me to play along with a recording of Royal Airs "Over There" and the Cavaliers original (pre contra bass) "Bully." It's a fairly limited instrument, and is hard to play in tune, but it does have a few "magic" notes.

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Thanks for all that detail.

I think the Mid-West corps were far more hardware/ tech savvy than we Easterners. The preferred form of cheating here was overage marching. Some corps were notorious.

At my very first show with the Queensmen, I was "protested" right on the starting line by the management of a rather prominent All-Girl unit because I looked like someone they suspected.

The chief judge asked to see my driver's license. I was 15, not old enough to have one.

 

 

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On 2/24/2020 at 8:24 PM, Fran Haring said:

Compared to you, Ken Norman and others, I know next to nothing about music composition/arranging.... but just from listening, Truman Crawford's arrangements for the Royal Airs included things like the lower brass carrying the melody at times... which was definitely not the norm back then.

I had a great time playing Tru’s arrangements in the reunion corps in 2002.  I held them in such reverence as a young corps member.  It was like a dream come true to play Ballyhoo and Watermelon Man in a Royal-Airs uniform. 

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On 2/29/2020 at 9:08 PM, ironlips said:

Thanks for all that detail.

I think the Mid-West corps were far more hardware/ tech savvy than we Easterners. The preferred form of cheating here was overage marching. Some corps were notorious.

At my very first show with the Queensmen, I was "protested" right on the starting line by the management of a rather prominent All-Girl unit because I looked like someone they suspected.

The chief judge asked to see my driver's license. I was 15, not old enough to have one.

 

 

"Getting Carded:"

Both Joe Genero and Hy Drietzer told us all about this guy (And his wife).   As for "Rotors" of any kind all we had in either corps were Getzen valve SLIDE  GD bugles..   🎺  The charts that Joe and Hy wrote for us didn' NEED any "Rotors"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :guinesssmilie:

Elphaba

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  • 2 weeks later...

I remember Gail

On 2/23/2020 at 9:19 PM, ironlips said:

I saw them in Mc Cormick Place when they won the '65 VFW.

One of my mentors was judging, and he found a perch for me and my friend, Tommy Howell, one row behind the GE judges, from which we watched the entire finals show.

In my opinion, it would be futile to try to describe the Royal Airs. The audio recording exists, of course, and it's amazing, but even that pales by comparison to "being there".

This must be considered in the context of drum corps in 1965, and I'm not sure that's possible anymore. A "big" horn line had 45 brass. There were no keyboards, timpani or other pit instruments. The Royal Airs didn't even feature contra basses that season and may have had only 2 of the newly-introduced mellophones. And then there was the drum line, and their marching design and skill. One would have to immerse oneself in the corps music and standards of the era to fully appreciate the Royal Airs.

The late Gail Royer claimed they were the best corps he had ever seen. I'm with him. (Ok, not the "late" part.)

I remember that quote from Gail in one of the DCI videos and that's a big part of what's always made me curious about the 1965 Royal Airs.  What Gail also said was that the 1965 Royal Airs were the best UNTIL the 1987 Santa Clara Vanguard.  As a 1980s fan I love the 87 SCV too, but it's impossible to compare the two. 

I've heard the Royal Airs recording now and am very impressed with what I heard.  I have very little knowledge about 1960s drum corps, I'll admit.  I enjoyed the 65 Royal Airs more than anything else I've heard from the era.  I agree about what someone said about it all coming together well instead of throwing a mix at the wall and seeing what sticks!  I've heard all the Cavaliers' recordings going back to the early 1950s (seriously) and am wondering what other "VFW era" corps are the best for me to take a listen to.  Thanks guys!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/12/2020 at 2:29 AM, ironlips said:

1968 Kilties

1969 Boston

Edited by ajlisko
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42 minutes ago, ironlips said:

Oh, yeah! Shellmer and Dennon writing, Charlie Poole on snare, Jim Centorino on sop. An embarrassment of riches.

Yes, here is a clip 

1969 Boston Crusaders-Conquest & UnSquare Dance @ VFW Nationals Philly posted by Roy Perez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyiBnqkKeAk

 

 

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