Encouragement Thread - If you need support let’s help

[N.E. Brigand]

56 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

My response was addressing a post claiming that Sweden was not making an effort to protect their at-risk populations, echoing the popular fake-news insinuation branding their policies as pursuing herd immunity.

In reality, Sweden is socially distancing, not pursuing herd immunity.  They adopted a slow-the-spread approach to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed.  Group gatherings have been prohibited.  Nursing home visitation has been banned.  They have closed grade schools and universities.  Government has also expanded sick leave, directed people work from home, suspend unnecessary travel... any of this sound familiar?

Sorry for misreading your intent. The Business Insider article to which I linked notes that Sweden has taken these steps, less aggressive than in many U.S. states but also far from being totally unrestricted. That said, Sweden's health agencies did in fact describe their goal as herd immunity. Also a lot of the deaths in Sweden are happening in nursing homes, which suggests that the idea of only isolating older populations and letting younger populations go about their business may not work.

In light of determining just what constitutes a lockdown, I'd also note that Italy today began loosening its restrictions. And it appears that the measures in place in much of the U.S. for the past six weeks, that many in this country would consider a full lockdown, are what Italy would consider loose. (I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, just that there's an inconsistent understanding of what it means.) As of today, Italy will now permit outdoor exercise, and restaurant carry-out, and about 20% of the country can now go to work. We've had pretty much all of that everywhere this whole time.

I'm not sure whether that's encouraging or not.

Edited May 4, 2020 by N.E. Brigand

[Cappybara]

Governor of Virginia announced a couple days ago that the state is receiving three sterilization units that will, in total, allow for the sterilization of 240,000 units of PPE per day for re-use. That will be huge for helping the hospital systems cope with any future or current surges. Very encouraging. 

I am very thankful our governor is a former physician, he is taking this situation much more seriously than other states are (looking at you Florida, don't make me pull out the Bugs Bunny gif chopping you off from the mainland). Our state is likely to enter phase 1 sometime next week which is fantastic news and a step in the right direction. 

I hope other states will continue to follow the phase guidelines.

[JimF-LowBari]

20 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Governor of Virginia announced a couple days ago that the state is receiving three sterilization units that will, in total, allow for the sterilization of 240,000 units of PPE per day for re-use. That will be huge for helping the hospital systems cope with any future or current surges. Very encouraging. 

I am very thankful our governor is a former physician, he is taking this situation much more seriously than other states are (looking at you Florida, don't make me pull out the Bugs Bunny gif chopping you off from the mainland). Our state is likely to enter phase 1 sometime next week which is fantastic news and a step in the right direction. 

I hope other states will continue to follow the phase guidelines.

Any idea where the sterilization units will be located or will they be used for the entire state? 

And seeing lot of that Bugs gif. Have in laws of in laws there and..... not saying it...

[Cappybara]

3 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Any idea where the sterilization units will be located or will they be used for the entire state? 

And seeing lot of that Bugs gif. Have in laws of in laws there and..... not saying it...

Blacksburg (odd choice on first look but it's to be shared with Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina), Newport News, and Chesterfield. There is also fourth unit in DC being shared with Virginia and Maryland. 

Eh why not, let's bring this beautiful GIF out, they had it coming 

[dans]

2 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Blacksburg (odd choice on first look but it's to be shared with Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina), Newport News, and Chesterfield. There is also fourth unit in DC being shared with Virginia and Maryland. 

Eh why not, let's bring this beautiful GIF out, they had it coming 

Hope Bugs does California while he has the saw.

[Cappybara]

2 minutes ago, dans said:

Hope Bugs does California while he has the saw.

In a way, I hope so too so I can move there. An independent Cali sounds like heaven. 

[JimF-LowBari]

13 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Blacksburg (odd choice on first look but it's to be shared with Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina), Newport News, and Chesterfield. There is also fourth unit in DC being shared with Virginia and Maryland. 

Eh why not, let's bring this beautiful GIF out, they had it coming 

Had to google Chesterfield lol. So units in major population centers of DC area, Norfolk and right below Richmond. Then put one out in western VA with Blacksburg. Looks fairly spread out to me 👍

Thanks have done a lot of driving in VA for work (Norfolk, DC metro area), vacation (Williamsburg area) and a helluva route to in laws in NC to avoid a lot of I-95 (IOW Route 17) so was wondering. 

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, N.E. Brigand said:

That said, Sweden's health agencies did in fact describe their goal as herd immunity.

That is false.  Herd immunity was never their "goal" (your word), to be "pursued" (as most foreign press spun it) as if by purposely infecting people.

But why take my word for it?  Take the word of Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist of the public health agency to which you refer (as reported in USA Today, 4/28/20):

 

What is Sweden's COVID-19 strategy?

Tegnell: We are trying to keep transmission rates at a level that the Stockholm health system can sustain. So far that has worked out. The health system is stressed. They are working very hard. But they have delivered health care to everybody, including those without COVID-19. That is our goal. We are not calculating herd immunity in this. With various measures, we are just trying to keep the transmission rate as low as possible. The amount of cases has been stable for the last two-to-three weeks. We believe herd immunity will of course help us in the long run, and we are discussing that, but it's not like we are actively trying to achieve it as has been made out (by the press and some scientists). If we wanted to achieve herd immunity we would have done nothing and let coronavirus run rampant through society. We are trying to keep the transmission rate as low as we can. We have taken reasonable measures without really hurting health care or schools. We are going for a sustainable strategy; something we can keep on doing for months. Coronavirus is not something that is just going to go away. Any country that believes it can keep it out (by closing borders, shuttering businesses, etc.) will most likely be proven wrong at some stage. We need to learn to live with this disease. 

[JimF-LowBari]

Hoping PA is still checking into possible coronavirus cases at nursing homes as my zip codes positive cases getting scary. Two weeks ago was 64 and last week went to mid 80s. Today at 97 which is roughly 1 out of every 100 people.... Have 3 long term care places in the zip.

encouraging is at least we know, otherwise would be even more scary

Edited May 4, 2020 by JimF-LowBari

[N.E. Brigand]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

That is false.  Herd immunity was never their "goal" (your word), to be "pursued" (as most foreign press spun it) as if by purposely infecting people.

But why take my word for it?  Take the word of Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist of the public health agency to which you refer (as reported in USA Today, 4/28/20):

What is Sweden's COVID-19 strategy?

Tegnell: We are trying to keep transmission rates at a level that the Stockholm health system can sustain. So far that has worked out. The health system is stressed. They are working very hard. But they have delivered health care to everybody, including those without COVID-19. That is our goal. We are not calculating herd immunity in this. With various measures, we are just trying to keep the transmission rate as low as possible. The amount of cases has been stable for the last two-to-three weeks. We believe herd immunity will of course help us in the long run, and we are discussing that, but it's not like we are actively trying to achieve it as has been made out (by the press and some scientists). If we wanted to achieve herd immunity we would have done nothing and let coronavirus run rampant through society. We are trying to keep the transmission rate as low as we can. We have taken reasonable measures without really hurting health care or schools. We are going for a sustainable strategy; something we can keep on doing for months. Coronavirus is not something that is just going to go away. Any country that believes it can keep it out (by closing borders, shuttering businesses, etc.) will most likely be proven wrong at some stage. We need to learn to live with this disease. 

I never said anything about purposely infecting people. But even your quote from Dr. Tegnell makes it clear that he welcomes herd immunity. And per another source: "Tegnell recently said Sweden only has two options: Either everyone gets vaccinated or the country develops herd immunity." And in the long run, he's not wrong! We're just quibbling about the safest way to get to that point.

Also other Swedish officials have also made it clear that they expect a large share of their population to be infected in the next few weeks:

"Sweden's ambassador to the U.S. believes the country's controversial strategy of imposing only limited restrictions — and not locking down the country — is bearing success, with the capital, Stockholm, on course to reach herd immunity in the next few weeks.

'About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity,' Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter told NPR. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month.'"

It's very interesting to see some Swedes in the opposite position of the open-up protesters here in the U.S.:

"'I didn’t sign my informed consent for this experiment,' virologist Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér of the Karolinska Institute, a medical research center near Stockholm, told me. 'I don’t know if [my family and I] can stay in a country that is not protecting its population.'"

I'll absolutely admit (as I already did) that there is a broad spectrum of options from completely locked down (Wuhan, Lombardy) to completely open (nowhere, as far as I know) and that Sweden put in place a number of limited restrictions, and asked its citizenry to take it upon themselves to do more voluntarily. As one of the articles I linked notes, some Swedes did so, and others not so much. Their government banned gatherings of 500 or more. Some special events promoters then sold 499 tickets to events. Not really getting into the spirit!

In the end, Sweden's gamble may pay off and this claim some commentator made last week might prove to be premature:

"Despite reports to the contrary, Sweden is paying heavily for its decision not to lockdown. As of today, 2462 people have died there, a much higher number than the neighboring countries of Norway (207), Finland (206) or Denmark (443). The United States made the correct decision!"

(It should be noted that Sweden is about twice as large as each of the other countries, so you have to account for that when comparing.)

A year from now, when Sweden has herd immunity and there's still no vaccine, they may be able to go about their business completely unencumbered and with few new infections, while Sweden's neighbors and the U.S. may still be suffering both from the virus and from lockdown constraints.

And we can ponder that while watching our favorite Ingmar Bergman movies.

Question: which of those four images comes from a film that shares a title with a Blue Devils show?