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On 5/7/2020 at 10:20 AM, njthundrrd said:

Every drum corps is going to need funds to keep their minimal offices running between now and Oct/Nov or so when then kick back in again (hopefully, but I am objectively optimistic)!
I would guess that on average, each corps will need to raise about $250-$400k to keep their operations going in that time.

Could you provide a little detail to explain that guess? 

Because if I am hearing this correctly, an INACTIVE CORPS requires between $250,000 and $400,000 for six months... which extrapolates to between $500,000 and $800,000 annually "just to keep a minimal office running".  

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12 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Could you provide a little detail to explain that guess? 

Because if I am hearing this correctly, an INACTIVE CORPS requires between $250,000 and $400,000 for six months... which extrapolates to between $500,000 and $800,000 annually "just to keep a minimal office running".  

Well look at it this way...
1 - Office staff (salaries, tax, benefits) and rent on your building with utilities. Maybe you have vehicles etc on leases too?

2 - The tuition/dues that were paid up until the season was terminated this year and the amount of fees you already spent to pay the bills since OCT/NOV 2019 that you will not get back when you are allowed to hold those fees to pay for that members 2021 season (with 2020 fees).

Without show fees and if you run (one or more) DCI shows in the summer, along with "feed the corps" kind of fundraisers and souvies. Corps are going to have to really scrounge to make it work. That is why each corps annual campaign is every so important now. 

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24 minutes ago, njthundrrd said:

Well look at it this way...
1 - Office staff (salaries, tax, benefits) and rent on your building with utilities. Maybe you have vehicles etc on leases too?

2 - The tuition/dues that were paid up until the season was terminated this year and the amount of fees you already spent to pay the bills since OCT/NOV 2019 that you will not get back when you are allowed to hold those fees to pay for that members 2021 season (with 2020 fees).

Without show fees and if you run (one or more) DCI shows in the summer, along with "feed the corps" kind of fundraisers and souvies. Corps are going to have to really scrounge to make it work. That is why each corps annual campaign is every so important now. 

1.  I thought you said "minimal office".  Why do you need an office staff when your entire operation is shut down for the next six months minimum?  And why do you need to pay them when the PPP will do that for you?

2.  Camps are (or should be) pay-as-you-go, therefore the fees you already spent are nonrefundable anyway.  If you received tuition payments in advance and are holding them for 2021, that is a bonus unlike anything a drum corps will ever experience again in history.

3.  Sure, there will be no show paydays.  But there will be no show day expenses either.  (Winter programs have it rougher, as their season was actually stopped in progress and they probably have more unrecoverable expenses.)

Not denying that some expenses remain.  But if shutdown costs 50%-80% of full operating cost, you are not doing it right.

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10 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

1.  I thought you said "minimal office".  Why do you need an office staff when your entire operation is shut down for the next six months minimum?  And why do you need to pay them when the PPP will do that for you?

2.  Camps are (or should be) pay-as-you-go, therefore the fees you already spent are nonrefundable anyway.  If you received tuition payments in advance and are holding them for 2021, that is a bonus unlike anything a drum corps will ever experience again in history.

3.  Sure, there will be no show paydays.  But there will be no show day expenses either.  (Winter programs have it rougher, as their season was actually stopped in progress and they probably have more unrecoverable expenses.)

Not denying that some expenses remain.  But if shutdown costs 50%-80% of full operating cost, you are not doing it right.

Take an office staff of 4 with salaries, taxes, and health insurance, you are at 250,000 maybe 300,000 not including the corps staff. Throw in stipends for the BOD (not all groups have volunteer Boards).  Now add in rent or mortgage payments, utilities, insurance, travel expenses, etc., etc., your easily up well over 500K per year in operating expenses. I did not even include the six figure salary for the corps director.

Most World Class corps are now multi, multi million dollar operations.

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31 minutes ago, fsthnds said:

Take an office staff of 4 with salaries, taxes, and health insurance, you are at 250,000 maybe 300,000 not including the corps staff. Throw in stipends for the BOD (not all groups have volunteer Boards).  Now add in rent or mortgage payments, utilities, insurance, travel expenses, etc., etc., your easily up well over 500K per year in operating expenses. I did not even include the six figure salary for the corps director.

I had to double-check.  Sure enough, DCI still says the 2020 season is cancelled.  So why do corps need an office staff of 4 right now?  Are stipends for BOD members appropriate in this trying time? 

And what travel expenses?  We are not even ALLOWED to travel.

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Most World Class corps are now multi, multi million dollar operations.

I doubt the accuracy of that statement.

a.  Last time we went through it here (i.e. the 990s thread), you could run a WC corps on $400,000 to $600,000.  For perennial top 12 status, it was getting up to $800,000 or $900,000.  I imagine the number has crept up a bit over the past 2 or 3 years, but it has not tripled as you suggest.

b.  Some budgets were larger than those numbers because their organizations were not just a WC drum corps.  SCV runs two corps.  BD runs three.  A number of groups have winter guard and/or percussion under the same organizational umbrella as the drum corps.  Several have additional programs such as dance, concert ensembles, and/or sponsorship of marching band contests in the fall.  A couple are even wider arts conglomerates like Inspire Arts or BD Performing Arts.

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49 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

I had to double-check.  Sure enough, DCI still says the 2020 season is cancelled.  So why do corps need an office staff of 4 right now?  Are stipends for BOD members appropriate in this trying time? 

And what travel expenses?  We are not even ALLOWED to travel.

I doubt the accuracy of that statement.

a.  Last time we went through it here (i.e. the 990s thread), you could run a WC corps on $400,000 to $600,000.  For perennial top 12 status, it was getting up to $800,000 or $900,000.  I imagine the number has crept up a bit over the past 2 or 3 years, but it has not tripled as you suggest.

b.  Some budgets were larger than those numbers because their organizations were not just a WC drum corps.  SCV runs two corps.  BD runs three.  A number of groups have winter guard and/or percussion under the same organizational umbrella as the drum corps.  Several have additional programs such as dance, concert ensembles, and/or sponsorship of marching band contests in the fall.  A couple are even wider arts conglomerates like Inspire Arts or BD Performing Arts.

A while back, the Bluecoats press release about lost revenue from the virus stated their operating budget is 2.5 to 3 Mil per year. A couple of organizations you mentioned have annual budgets in the 5-10 mil range. I know an open class corp who is approaching the 800K-1 mil budget range.

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45 minutes ago, fsthnds said:

A while back, the Bluecoats press release about lost revenue from the virus stated their operating budget is 2.5 to 3 Mil per year. A couple of organizations you mentioned have annual budgets in the 5-10 mil range. I know an open class corp who is approaching the 800K-1 mil budget range.

And how many of those examples include bingo receipts/payouts as "operating budget"?

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