DCI Era Medalists - Something New to talk about!!

[Jurassic Lancer]

1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Not a Concord honk whatsoever, and I loved 2-7, but to knock off the reigning champs you need to be decidedly better.  I didn't see that, and I don't understand why so many people feel as you do.  

Yeah, I think we are going to disagree here, no offense. I will give BD brass, (but not 6th in brass!), and that’s about it.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Jurassic Lancer

[greg_orangecounty]

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

Yeah, I think we are going to disagree here, no offense. 

No offense taken whatsoever.  I know I'm in the minority opinion. 

[Jurassic Lancer]

20 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

No offense taken whatsoever.  I know I'm in the minority opinion. 

Except your minority opinion includes the judges on that night. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Jurassic Lancer

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, supersop said:

OUCH!  Taking away Bridgemen's only medal ... and giving Spirit (what would be) their only medal?

That's a tough call.  I agree that 27th had an argument.  

that whole top 4 was great.... what .8 from 1-4? Spirit 6th in visual hurt them. BD 6th percussion hurt them. 27th 6 brass hurt them. 5th in visual hurt Bridgemen. any of those captions being higher drastically changes the outcome

[jwillis35]

1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Not a Concord honk whatsoever, and I loved 2-7, but to knock off the reigning champs you need to be decidedly better.  I didn't see that, and I don't understand why so many people feel as you do.  And Spirit over Bayonne......!?  Spirit's horn line soared that night but Bayonne's drum line that year was one for the ages.  I always believed Bayonne's Color Guard held them back from placing higher during their prime.  

To me this is an "old wives tale" kind of thing to say. I see where you are coming from, because a lot of people thought that way back in the day, but in order to beat a defending champion you simply have to score higher. You don't have to decidedly beat them. That is a falsehood. Winning by .1 or 1 is winning.

DCI judges do not care what you did the year before. They don't spot BD 5 additional points because they won the previous year. Other corps are not warned that if they wish to beat BD they will have to beat them by 5.1 points in order to get the .1 win. 

The only thing that matters is your current show. I felt 27th Lancers deserved the title in 1980. They had the best overall show. BD was great and clean and had lovely music arrangements. They were a very close 2nd place to me.

[supersop]

11 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

To me this is an "old wives tale" kind of thing to say. I see where you are coming from, because a lot of people thought that way back in the day, but in order to beat a defending champion you simply have to score higher. You don't have to decidedly beat them. That is a falsehood. Winning by .1 or 1 is winning.

DCI judges do not care what you did the year before. They don't spot BD 5 additional points because they won the previous year. Other corps are not warned that if they wish to beat BD they will have to beat them by 5.1 points in order to get the .1 win. 

The only thing that matters is your current show. I felt 27th Lancers deserved the title in 1980. They had the best overall show. BD was great and clean and had lovely music arrangements. They were a very close 2nd place to me.

Wives tale or not ... I honestly believe that the sentiment is correct all up and down the rankings.  Where I take issue with the premise is that it isn't sorted out on finals night.  Typically, a corps with a lower ranking from the previous year will move up (where warranted) around 3 weeks before finals.  Judges will err on the side of caution for the first month of the season until it is CLEAR that the lower ranked corps is better in any given caption, and then reward them properly.

[Ghost]

51 minutes ago, supersop said:

Wives tale or not ... I honestly believe that the sentiment is correct all up and down the rankings.  Where I take issue with the premise is that it isn't sorted out on finals night.  Typically, a corps with a lower ranking from the previous year will move up (where warranted) around 3 weeks before finals.  Judges will err on the side of caution for the first month of the season until it is CLEAR that the lower ranked corps is better in any given caption, and then reward them properly.

So, what you believe is happening is slotting.

[84BDsop]

12 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

 Winning by .1 is winning.

 

I'M HIT!  MEDIC!!

 

*winning by .025 is still winning as well*

[IllianaLancerContra]

On 5/13/2020 at 1:05 PM, jthomas666 said:

1980 should have been

27th
BD
Spirit
Bridgemen

".....and in second place, which is a tie for first place....."

 

Was there a championship tie-breaker back then (I know there had been ties lower in the standings)?  At 1982 DCM finals Phantom &  Madison tied.  Just after 3rd place was announced at  retreat the both marched off the field.  Announcer said 'There has been a tie for first, & we WILL have a champion'.  So other Corps cleared out;  Madison & Phantom performed again.  Phantom won with an 85.4 to Madison's 85.0.

[N.E. Brigand]

16 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

but to knock off the reigning champs you need to be decidedly better.

I agree that this is an unspoken requirement based on unconscious biases that favor the known (it's what Bruckner8 calls "competitive inertia"), but I wish it weren't so.