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Seven Steps to Drum Corps Restart


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8 hours ago, E3D said:

Don't worry too much about that guy. That guy has to be right and get the last word on every topic. Even the weather. 

 

 

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On 5/17/2020 at 8:30 AM, cixelsyd said:

Reporters are people too.

A long time?  Only in 2018 did the irony arise of having Morrison as DCI BOD chairman when said BOD was charged with developing a raft of new policies regarding member safety, harassment prevention and reporting.  DCI evidently had no problem with Morrison leading that effort - so it took a public outcry, developed online, to provoke change.

You read them online, like the rest of us.  For that matter, you posted the link to the Hopkins resignation news here.  You were part of the online outcry.

And to review, the chronology went like this.  First news went online Wednesday 4/4.  Hopkins resigned Friday 4/6.  His story was not printed on paper until the Sunday edition (late Saturday, technically), 4/7-4/8.  If online outcry was irrelevant, he would not have resigned until after the print version hit the newsstands.

But that is exactly why there was no such thing as a 2019 Oregon Crusaders corps.  Members and staff did not just quit after 2018 - they aired their grievances online.  That drove away new applicants, to the extent where they only had 50 prospective members.  And that is what ultimately sidelined the corps.

I get it - DCI does not often listen to their fans, and they do not base all their business decisions on who complains loudest on their Facebook page.  But you overstate this a bit.  And in doubling down, you now seem to be in categoric denial that public sentiment has any impact, or that the online dissemination of news and airing of public opinions make 2018 any different from 1818 in that regard.  Is it that hard to say "I misspoke"?

yes i posted the link. which i went to find after reading the actual newsprint newspaper that was on my front step. 

guarantee you online outcry had zero effect on any decisions DCI made. lawyers and the fear of bad PR or loss of income did. they could give two flying ####s what people complain about online. 

 

i am all for information getting out however it gets out, and for fans airing grievances like it's a Seinfeld episode airing around the holidays. I also understand how DCI operates internally. if online oucry was a factor, Hop would have been gone years ago, Dan would have resigned or been fired 10 times by now, and half of BD's recent victories would be overturned.

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On 5/16/2020 at 11:49 PM, Jeff Ream said:

online outcry is from people making a ruckus online. we had been #####ing on here and Reddit about Morrison for a long time before that change made. i read most of the articles in the actual newspaper.

 

and not one thing changed because of any outcry from fans or members online. DCI has only once made a change based off of online behavior, and that was recaps. the G&? they were already fighting back internally before it got out here. all of the publishing of safety regs had little to do with online discussions and more from fear of legal action and loss of sponsors. 

 

i appreciate your attempt to parse participles in a Brasso/Garfield way, but well, you came up short.

Well, it is a high bar.

 

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18 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

guarantee you online outcry had zero effect on any decisions DCI made. lawyers and the fear of bad PR or loss of income did. they could give two flying ####s what people complain about online.

Bad PR = online outcry.

 

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A civil war is breaking out between Jeff Ream and cixelsyd!

Both have points that are well taken. We have seen in the past DCI is going to do what DCI is going to do, but the Internet is so much a part of our lives, we don’t always realize how much it influences us. 

Some corps use social media well. A good example is Carolina Crown. Between 2010-2013, they did an excellent job promoting the corps on FB and revving up excitement prior to their 2013 victory. They paid careful attention to comments and within seconds removed inappropriate or off the wall comments, and seemed to look for feedback. Let’s just say other corps did not do that great a job. 

Regarding social media and DCI, if you sat in an office and looked at various social media platforms, how would you make sense of it? The better known FB pages are all over the place, DCP and Reddit do have knowledgeable commenters but their posts probably have little influence. There are some who comment who do have the ears of folks in Indy and corps directors, but actual human conversations rather than posts are more influential. I saw an article about a year ago but I can’t recall where I saw it, that focused on the changes of FB and said most people who were not students and over the age of thirty signed up for Facebook between 2009-2010. This would have been the time that DCI should have taken charge of publicity on FB regarding drum corps and better controlled the conversation. This didn’t happen, and while DCI could not control the crazier pages that emerged, there would have been a stronger official voice. If that had happened, DCI would have jumped when the Internet was involved.

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1 hour ago, Tim K said:

A civil war is breaking out between Jeff Ream and cixelsyd!

Naah.  If you want to see a civil war break out, search YouTube for "Bayonne Bridgemen 1980".

Quote

Both have points that are well taken. We have seen in the past DCI is going to do what DCI is going to do, but the Internet is so much a part of our lives, we don’t always realize how much it influences us. 

Well, we have seen that once DCI makes a decision, they do not often flip-flop.  "Back by popular demand" is not that common a phrase with them.  But to suggest that present/future decisions by DCI take no account for fanbase or general public sentiment would be stretching it too far.

Quote

Regarding social media and DCI, if you sat in an office and looked at various social media platforms, how would you make sense of it? The better known FB pages are all over the place, DCP and Reddit do have knowledgeable commenters but their posts probably have little influence. There are some who comment who do have the ears of folks in Indy and corps directors, but actual human conversations rather than posts are more influential.

That reminds me... 

We are often told that some of the DCI "powers that be" lurk on DCP, and have followed the more meaningful discussions that take place here.  IIRC, Jeff Ream is one who makes that assertion.  I have to wonder why DCI/corps people would pay any attention to DCP if they did not "give two flying ####s what people complain about online".

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1 hour ago, Tim K said:

A civil war is breaking out between Jeff Ream and cixelsyd!

Both have points that are well taken. We have seen in the past DCI is going to do what DCI is going to do, but the Internet is so much a part of our lives, we don’t always realize how much it influences us. 

Some corps use social media well. A good example is Carolina Crown. Between 2010-2013, they did an excellent job promoting the corps on FB and revving up excitement prior to their 2013 victory. They paid careful attention to comments and within seconds removed inappropriate or off the wall comments, and seemed to look for feedback. Let’s just say other corps did not do that great a job. 

Regarding social media and DCI, if you sat in an office and looked at various social media platforms, how would you make sense of it? The better known FB pages are all over the place, DCP and Reddit do have knowledgeable commenters but their posts probably have little influence. There are some who comment who do have the ears of folks in Indy and corps directors, but actual human conversations rather than posts are more influential. I saw an article about a year ago but I can’t recall where I saw it, that focused on the changes of FB and said most people who were not students and over the age of thirty signed up for Facebook between 2009-2010. This would have been the time that DCI should have taken charge of publicity on FB regarding drum corps and better controlled the conversation. This didn’t happen, and while DCI could not control the crazier pages that emerged, there would have been a stronger official voice. If that had happened, DCI would have jumped when the Internet was involved.

So far as using the internet & social media (as it was back then), the initial bar was set by the San Fransisco Renegades in the late 1990s - early 2000's.  There wasn't a day gone by on RAMD without a Renegades post.  & even if you didn't care for the posts, at least you were curious to see what the fuss was all about & if they lived up to the (considerable) hype (spioilder alert  - they did)

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Question is did the online grumping make DCI change anything or was it possible lawsuits and court trials that made them try to clean up their act?

And yes SM and online did make the bad information more available. 

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This would be the perfect time to revisit the scoring system.  Or more precisely, a time for judges to get their "minds right" about the activity.  Expanding creativity is a noble goal, but fans are buying tickets to be entertained, not enlightened. 

Despite hours of consideration, I cannot come up with a way to create a "Classic" division, where some corps can perform old school shows without being slaughtered by judges.  

My feelings on electronics, if a corps can perform their show as if electronics would not affect the total performance.  Technical difficulty delays should be penalized (one point for each minute delay). 

My $0.02. 

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45 minutes ago, lameisrob said:

This would be the perfect time to revisit the scoring system.  Or more precisely, a time for judges to get their "minds right" about the activity.  Expanding creativity is a noble goal, but fans are buying tickets to be entertained, not enlightened. 

Despite hours of consideration, I cannot come up with a way to create a "Classic" division, where some corps can perform old school shows without being slaughtered by judges.  

My feelings on electronics, if a corps can perform their show as if electronics would not affect the total performance.  Technical difficulty delays should be penalized (one point for each minute delay). 

My $0.02. 

Timing penalties exist. Wether for electronics delays or otherwise, they are a thing. The only exception being the beginning few shows of the season. As is the case with most marching arts activities. 

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