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Bob984

contest "upset" question

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In the earlier days, competitive upsets were far more frequent, especially in the early season, than they are today.  I am specifically referring to

a corps that eventually finishes in finals being beaten by someone who does not qualifiy for finals at the end of the same year.  In 1977, my first year,

in June, the Boston Crusaders beat the 27th Lancers.  Boston finished in 17th place at DCI (27th finished 5fh).  Boston also defeated other

finalists at shows that year, including the Crossmen and the Cadets.  However, I believe that 27th may be the highest finisher (5th) to lose

a show to a non-finalist during the same season, without looking.  Has any finalist ever finished higher than 5th at finals that lost to a non-finalist

earlier that same season?

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4 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

I don't think anyone in the DCI era that would beat 27 in 1977.

Back in the VFW / AL era it might have happened

5/28/77   New London, Ct.   

  Corps Score
  1 Boston Crusaders 65.650
  2 27th Lancers 65.400
  3 Garfield Cadets 62.250
  4 North Star 61.950
  5 Pembroke Imperials 52.550
  6 St. Ignatius 52.100
  7 Fitchburg Kingsmen 47.600

also, 9/3/77 Malden, Mass.

Return to or
Battle of Champions
September 3, 1977
Malden MA
Division Position Corps Score
  1 Boston Crusaders 83.050
  2 27th Lancers 82.950
  3 North Star 82.700
  4 Squires 75.500
  5 Defenders 71.850
  6 Pembroke Imperials 66.700
  7 Jeanettes 65.800
  8 Fitchburg Kingsmen 62.600
  9 St. Francis Xavier Sancians 62.500
  10 Socialites 53.450
  11 Valley-Airs 52.400
  12 Spartans 43.500

 

27th was 5th at DCI Championships..............I was in the Crossmen, my first year in corps, that Summer.  I remember when we got the word. Boston came out of the gate fast, and 27th didn't.....we beat 27th in Bayonne the following week, and also in Bridgeport..........Boston beat us a few times......Bayonne was the kingpin of the east, but the rest was quite a battle............27th was 4th at DCI East, but won CYO's over the same corps the very next day.......It was a wild year.....Oakland Crusaders won drums but didn't make finals............The Guardsmen, who beat 6 finalists during the season and did not lose a regular season show to a non-finalist, ended up in 16th at prelims...........the Bridgemen were disqualified after prelims, but got a court injunction to march in and compete at finals.......the only tie ever for 12th happened, so 13 corps appeared in finals......27th was again beaten by Boston at the end of the season.....though sometimes at very late shows some corps had alot of blanks, though I can't vouch for this particular show..............

    I don't think we will see a non-finalist beat an eventual top 5 finisher in the same season anytime soon................but it did happen....I think this is the DCI era record

for a non-finalist corps beating a high-finishing finalist during the same season.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Bob984 said:

5/28/77   New London, Ct.   

  Corps Score
  1 Boston Crusaders 65.650
  2 27th Lancers 65.400
  3 Garfield Cadets 62.250
  4 North Star 61.950
  5 Pembroke Imperials 52.550
  6 St. Ignatius 52.100
  7 Fitchburg Kingsmen 47.600

also, 9/3/77 Malden, Mass.

Return to or
Battle of Champions
September 3, 1977
Malden MA
Division Position Corps Score
  1 Boston Crusaders 83.050
  2 27th Lancers 82.950
  3 North Star 82.700
  4 Squires 75.500
  5 Defenders 71.850
  6 Pembroke Imperials 66.700
  7 Jeanettes 65.800
  8 Fitchburg Kingsmen 62.600
  9 St. Francis Xavier Sancians 62.500
  10 Socialites 53.450
  11 Valley-Airs 52.400
  12 Spartans 43.500

 

27th was 5th at DCI Championships..............I was in the Crossmen, my first year in corps, that Summer.  I remember when we got the word. Boston came out of the gate fast, and 27th didn't.....we beat 27th in Bayonne the following week, and also in Bridgeport..........Boston beat us a few times......Bayonne was the kingpin of the east, but the rest was quite a battle............27th was 4th at DCI East, but won CYO's over the same corps the very next day.......It was a wild year.....Oakland Crusaders won drums but didn't make finals............The Guardsmen, who beat 6 finalists during the season and did not lose a regular season show to a non-finalist, ended up in 16th at prelims...........the Bridgemen were disqualified after prelims, but got a court injunction to march in and compete at finals.......the only tie ever for 12th happened, so 13 corps appeared in finals......27th was again beaten by Boston at the end of the season.....though sometimes at very late shows some corps had alot of blanks, though I can't vouch for this particular show..............

    I don't think we will see a non-finalist beat an eventual top 5 finisher in the same season anytime soon................but it did happen....I think this is the DCI era record

for a non-finalist corps beating a high-finishing finalist during the same season.

 

 

27 rarely came out of gate fast.  But in 77 they were even less fast

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Remember when the Geneseo Knights were beating almost everyone in early season and then didn't make top 12 while the other corps. that they beat, did?

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3 hours ago, KeithHall said:

Remember when the Geneseo Knights were beating almost everyone in early season and then didn't make top 12 while the other corps. that they beat, did?

Back in the day, non-finalist "challengers" pulled many "upsets"....you are right that Geneseo Knights was one........here are a few others......Squires, Alliance, Defenders.....

I especially remember in early 1981, the Defenders defeated the Crossmen.  To the Crossmen's credit, they "dug in" after that, and by 1st tour, were "back in the game".

These kind of upsets all but ended when the "tick era" ended after 1983.

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"the only tie ever for 12th happened, so 13 corps appeared in finals."

Technically, the tie between Kilts and Garfield was for 11th place. That made 12th place moot. With Bayonne added back in, there were 13.

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Us NYer's always hooped Squires would do it after Purple Lancers.

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7 hours ago, KeithHall said:

Us NYer's always hooped Squires would do it after Purple Lancers.

They were in close (13th....six tenths out) in 1975....unfortunately, I was not at that championship.  Also, in 1977, we had several shows together,

and they were respectable, and nearly beat us (Crossmen) a few times, and did beat Garfield during the season........

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10 hours ago, Bob984 said:

They were in close (13th....six tenths out) in 1975....unfortunately, I was not at that championship.  Also, in 1977, we had several shows together,

and they were respectable, and nearly beat us (Crossmen) a few times, and did beat Garfield during the season........

I was there in 75 for prelims and finals and they were very very good.  I thought they had beat Troopers 

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