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Bocook, Downey, Prime, Klesch and Thrower!


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1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Blue Devis are the masters of park & bark.  Many times the section (mellophone, bari, whatever) that is playing the highly technical passage is standing still while the other sections are moving.  They do it so well that many times you don't even pick up on it unless you are looking for it.  And sometimes not even then

 

37 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Same thing was leveled against the Cavaliers in the early 2000's.

Mike

SOP for just about every DCI corps no matter what class.

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9 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

Kind of interesting, but not surprising, to hear Wayne Downey say he liked the trend away from marching and playing all the time. The new style of DCI is truly a different genre, one that values a lot of things that—ironically—are the opposite of the old Cadets style that they all say inspired them to do what they do. While I am always I awe of a player’s ability to march and play at full power and accuracy, I’d rather hear awesome music than something less, whether it’s while marching or not.

Also thought it was interesting that Wayne said its important to understand your talent and (specifically) experience level before designing a show. Again, it sort of affirms the fairly obvious fact that you won’t win a medal with an inexperienced corps.

Fascinated with the concept of allowing space in a show, both musically and visually. All of them agreed that this is something that you learn the hard way in show design and arranging. This is true in all aspects of design.

I would have liked to hear more details about specific show designs, though. Like the whirlpool concept, or Session 44 set design. 

Actual marching is an art that few staff understand how to teach and more importantly how to clean it. Which is why we see less and less of it. Takes a lot of time to teach, and learn correct technique. Problem is that there are few who know the basics of marching. 

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You can watch the rebroadcast of this talk with Cadets Brass Captionhead, Matt Stratton, with Jay Bocook, Wayne Downey, Jim Prime Jr., Michael Klesch, and Doug Thrower on FB here

 

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Re Parking and Barking:

 

Some of us remember when all corps stood stationary for 2 -plus minutes right in the middle of the show. It was called "The Concert".

Most of the time this section consisted of music that would have been nearly impossible to "march" to, given the tempo requirements and skills of the time.

Nobody complained since it was also usually the production that actually sounded best. For the audience, it was tantamount to being inside a full ensemble arc in the parking lot.

Here's an example. Scroll ahead to 5:30 or so:

 

Edited by ironlips
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22 hours ago, ironlips said:

Some of us remember when all corps stood stationary for 2 -plus minutes right in the middle of the show. It was called "The Concert".

Most of the time this section consisted of music that would have been nearly impossible to "march" to, given the tempo requirements and skills of the time.

I think this is an important thing to remember. The last true "Concert" numbers were likely in the mid 80s. Garfield kind of broke the mold with WSS in 84. Nonetheless, I agree with what Wayne Downey eluded to just briefly which is the trend of marching faster and faster was only going to go so far. Eventually you hit a barrier where the kids cannot play the parts as accurately, and if you're doing that sort of whiplash drill most of the show cleaning is going to be a huge problem. Now imagine that you also need to rewrite part of the show for better effect, etc., you have even more to deal with. I think even the Cadets began to pull back some by the late 90s. I enjoyed "run and gun." It was a nice era, but how far could you really go with tempos, speed of the music, and length of playing time before you destroy the show and kill the marchers? I think drum corps was ready for more peaks and valleys, more musical expression played at a higher level, and more artistry in design, staging, and musical writing. 

Every corps does some park and bark or whatever you want to call it. It's been part of the activity since the beginning. It's a great time to let the music shine whether were talking a specific section or the entire brass and percussion. As others have said there are musical phrases that just cannot be played moving, at least not to maximum effect. And if you are too spread out that could be another problem. 

I also thought Bocook was correct, too, (and Wayne agreed) that the new style of visual has placed greater demands on the arrangers. It's a different game and it's not an art-form that most music majors who study some composition in college are taught. Maybe if you're doing some film scoring or theater work you will have an idea, but the traditional band director, teacher, arranger has often not experienced these demands until they get out of college. And I liked that Michael Klesch said that young writers need to write often and offer their services for free if need be. They need to develop a portfolio (a real one and not just some MIDI mock-ups). I am kind of hoping these guys meet again, or perhaps a different group, and discuss the process, the tools, the  collaborative end of things, and even the timeline.

Edited by jwillis35
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On 6/24/2020 at 9:56 PM, ironlips said:

 Some of us remember when all corps stood stationary for 2 -plus minutes right in the middle of the show. It was called "The Concert".   Most of the time this section consisted of music that would have been nearly impossible to "march" to, given the tempo requirements and skills of the time.

There were exceptions to the difficulty of the concert music.   Here's one that starts about 30 seconds in.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-J7hOD5zjA

And the 65 Troopers at the VFW.  About 5:45 for the concert.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzx5EgefBUU

For contrast, here's 65 VFW Boston who started concert up front, but finished it back side.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn8V6JsVhqM

And one of the classic concerts by 64 SKEK.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUtQb1u8dI

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ghost
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"There were exceptions to the difficulty of the concert music. "

If we were just two dinosaurs sitting together shooting the bull in the back of the bus, I would humbly suggest to my esteemed colleague and student of the great Jerry Shellmer that speed and rhythmic complexity are not the only determinants of difficulty. Cambridge's "Malaguena"  is more exposed than any other production in the show, at least in terms of brass: isolated conducted attacks, balance, blend, intonation, antiphonal voice entrances, dynamics...etc. There's simply nowhere to hide.

Granted, there's little "rudimental" drumming, but even the percussion entrances were very exposed. On paper, the whole thing looks simple from a construction standpoint, it's true. But in practice it was the single most judge-able couple of minutes in the show. Besides, Jerry's drum writing provided plenty of "old school" throughout the rest of the routine.

As for the Troop piece, pretty much the same things apply, though there is more traditional drumming therein and a few meter and tempo shifts.

I was in the stands at Roosevelt Stadium when Barbara Bergdoll conducted "South Rampart Street Parade" the day that SKEK recording was made. Even though the tempo (not to mention title) would suggest it was "march-able", I was glad we could hear every single note from horns and drums as they stood in that concert formation. Unforgettable.

Kevin's won the Dream that day by just over 3 tenths. It was the first time a non-Jersey corps had placed first in the history of that show.

Edited by ironlips
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