rysa4 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: Crown won with 6th in percussion. Phantom won percussion in 6th place. one offs happen just as they did then Appreciate the reply. But lets look at this together a little closer; In 1985 the 27th Lancers finished 5th in drums if I remember correctly. They finished 13th as a corps though. And in even more striking, the Bridgeman finished 4th in drums in 1984, but finished 14th overall as a corps. There are no " one offs" today as there were then. Because back then, THESE WERE NOT ONE OFFS AT ALL. It was standard due to the lack of conditioning judge scoring and thinking under the false narrative of " consistency and fairness." I use drumlines as an example because thats what I was involved with and paid attention to. But it was common in other areas back then as well. The topic is important enough to point out. Today a 4th place drum line in a 13th place corps will never score in 4th place. It just ain't gonna happen. The fact that you chose a label of " one offs" is VERY telling as to the exact problem actually. 🙂 It WOULD indeed be a " one off" today. That is exactly the problem. so thank you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rysa4 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: I refuse to get into unsubstantiated rumor mongering. if i wanted to do that i'd run for office I don't either. So we can go there now. Bobby Hoffman lacked financial management skills and leadership oversight as far as org chart structure and execution. And a poorly functioning board allowed it to continue unchecked. Its just what happened and the corps simply could not function financially, as well as between instructors, members, both intra and inter relationships. Management and leadership matter. It doesn't mean Bobby Hoffman waasn't a creative genius however. It;s just what happened with an organization with a great product, without leadership and business management skills. Truth is truth. Ask Bobby yourself. See what he says. Or anyone involved with the Bridgeman at the time. Maybe some are here on this board/forum. Let's ask them what happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rysa4 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: because the show at least wasn't horrifically bad comedy and rap So this is interesting. The 1985 corps was much better than the 1987 version, although a shell of its former self for sure. I am talking about a quality/scoring perspective though. I can appreciate that you as a fan didn't dig the 1985 show. Fair enough. You don't like bad comedy and rap. All good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, rysa4 said: I don't either. So we can go there now. Bobby Hoffman lacked financial management skills and leadership oversight as far as org chart structure and execution. And a poorly functioning board allowed it to continue unchecked. Its just what happened and the corps simply could not function financially, as well as between instructors, members, both intra and inter relationships. Management and leadership matter. It doesn't mean Bobby Hoffman waasn't a creative genius however. It;s just what happened with an organization with a great product, without leadership and business management skills. Truth is truth. Ask Bobby yourself. See what he says. Or anyone involved with the Bridgeman at the time. Maybe some are here on this board/forum. Let's ask them what happened. I would be very surprised if Bobby answered. Maybe a OUIJE board? Edited July 11, 2020 by Jurassic Lancer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 I've seen all these shows before on the Legacy Collection videos, but it's nice to have a prompt like this thread to encounter them again. I just watched BD's show, which strikes me as a rather heady affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rysa4 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Jurassic Lancer said: I would be very surprised if Bobby answered. Maybe a OUIJE board? Ya I know I realized that too! 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 hours ago, rysa4 said: Appreciate the reply. But lets look at this together a little closer; In 1985 the 27th Lancers finished 5th in drums if I remember correctly. They finished 13th as a corps though. And in even more striking, the Bridgeman finished 4th in drums in 1984, but finished 14th overall as a corps. There are no " one offs" today as there were then. Because back then, THESE WERE NOT ONE OFFS AT ALL. It was standard due to the lack of conditioning judge scoring and thinking under the false narrative of " consistency and fairness." I use drumlines as an example because thats what I was involved with and paid attention to. But it was common in other areas back then as well. The topic is important enough to point out. Today a 4th place drum line in a 13th place corps will never score in 4th place. It just ain't gonna happen. The fact that you chose a label of " one offs" is VERY telling as to the exact problem actually. 🙂 It WOULD indeed be a " one off" today. That is exactly the problem. so thank you!!! to be 1000000% bluntly honest, these days you want to be at the top, you have to e #### good in every caption. and the talent pool runs far deeper than it did 20 years ago too, expecially in percussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 hours ago, rysa4 said: So this is interesting. The 1985 corps was much better than the 1987 version, although a shell of its former self for sure. I am talking about a quality/scoring perspective though. I can appreciate that you as a fan didn't dig the 1985 show. Fair enough. You don't like bad comedy and rap. All good. i saw both. no 87 didnt score what 85 did....but it wasn't as painful to watch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: Crown won with 6th in percussion. Phantom won percussion in 6th place. one offs happen just as they did then Cadets won in 84 with 7TH in drums....the lowest caption from any overall winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 hours ago, rysa4 said: Appreciate the reply. But lets look at this together a little closer; In 1985 the 27th Lancers finished 5th in drums if I remember correctly. They finished 13th as a corps though. And in even more striking, the Bridgeman finished 4th in drums in 1984, but finished 14th overall as a corps. There are no " one offs" today as there were then. Because back then, THESE WERE NOT ONE OFFS AT ALL. It was standard due to the lack of conditioning judge scoring and thinking under the false narrative of " consistency and fairness." I use drumlines as an example because thats what I was involved with and paid attention to. But it was common in other areas back then as well A stellar drum line can only take the corps so far if the rest of the program is waning. It was the drum scores that got Bridgemen and 27th into finals their last couple of years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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