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Cadets Establish Equality And Inclusion Committee


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49 minutes ago, Ghost said:

In the D&BC world, if racial/gender quotas were instituted, would it be similar to what has has caused frustration in the academic/business/government community?  "Yes, you had higher scores and a stronger resume, but we're obligated by law to take a lower scoring/skilled person."

I think the problem is this: what the people who appeared to have had "higher scores" and/or "a stronger resume" actually had was the advantages of a better upbringing. The real question is: can we find a fair measurement that takes that into account?

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3 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Indeed, although to be fair to drum corps: I think the critics in this thread are correct that drum corps has often been better about this than society writ large.

That said, I think it might be easier for people to see this discrmination if we were talking about sex rather than race (and to be sure, Cadets aren't limiting their work to the latter issue), because everyone can see more clearly how closely drum corps matches the population. How many corps directors are women? It's never been anywhere near 50%, right? There's no natural reason for that. Nothing about women makes them worse drum corps leaders than men. Rather, there is a systematic and largely unconscious bias in drum corps (and society at large) that has kept them from positions of power. 

For example: one response to this point might be: "But no woman who was qualified applied for the job!" It's not good enough to stop there. Even if true, you have to ask yourself: why is that there are lots of men but no women with the qualifications? And the answer will surely be: women aren't getting the drum corps jobs that would qualify them to move up to leadership. And so on. At no point in this chain need there be anyone who thinks "women are inferior". But just because the problem is unconscious doesn't mean it's not a problem.

I can't really explain/understand why there is more men than women directing DCI corps.  But from my perspective (from my own corps), the teaching staff has been not far from 50-50 for a long time. Lady's often been in leadership role (corps director, president, kitchen, head of staff) from the beginning of the corps 30 years ago. However, men tend to stay longer because I believe they care less about no security, small salary, 12 hours/day, sleeping in their car in order to be able to "work" for a drum corps. Could it be an explanation?  I don't know. I can only see that it is a long hour job, with a small salary, most of the time taking all the pressure AND the blame for everything (true or not). Man do not run for the job more than women. But may be women have more common sense and righly avoid it more?!? 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gabe92
Typo/Clarification
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15 minutes ago, Gabe92 said:

I can't really explain/understand why there is more men than women direction DCI corps.  But from my perspective (from my own corps), the teaching staff has been not far from 50-50. Lady's often been in leadership role (corps director, president, kitchen, head of staff). However, men tend to stay longer because I believe they care less about no security, small salary, 12 hours/day, sleeping in their car in order to be able to "work" for a drum corps. Could it be an explanation?  I don't know. I can only see that it is a long hour job, with a small salary, most of the time taking all the pressure AND the blame for everything (true or not). Man do not run for the job more than women. But may be women have more common sense and righly avoid it more?!? 
 

 

 

 

I wonder how many staff members are married? A man taking time away from his family doesn’t seem to be a problem but a woman doing the same would be frowned upon. That could be a factor in why their are fewer women involved in leadership roles. 

Edited by Brian Tuma
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2 minutes ago, Brian Tuma said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, Brian Tuma said:

I wonder how many staff members are married? A man taking time away from his family doesn’t seem to be a problem but a woman doing the same would be frowned upon. That could be a factor in why their are fewer women involved in leadership roles. 

 

That could be another point. 

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16 minutes ago, Gabe92 said:

I can't really explain/understand why there is more men than women directing DCI corps.    But may be women have more common sense and righly avoid it more?!? 

Possibly because women still are more involved, on a daily basis, with their children.

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4 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Obviously we should hope that it goes past mere signalling to actually addressing the problem.

Virtue signaling isn’t partway towards addressing the problem.  Virtue signaling encumbers addressing the problem and, as a result, contributes to the problem.  

I will leave it to others to decide whether the announcement is virtue signaling.  I personally hope it isn’t, but there are aspects of its nature and rhetoric that I find concerning.  

And given the trends we have seen with organizations rushing out to embrace specific movements they don’t fully understand, with little regard to the harms that may be done to the very communities they claim to support, I can understand why thoughtful people might be skeptical.

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5 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Indeed, although to be fair to drum corps: I think the critics in this thread are correct that drum corps has often been better about this than society writ large.

That said, I think it might be easier for people to see this discrmination if we were talking about sex rather than race (and to be sure, Cadets aren't limiting their work to the latter issue), because everyone can see more clearly how closely drum corps matches the population. How many corps directors are women? It's never been anywhere near 50%, right? There's no natural reason for that.

And you know this how?

Suppose we discovered that not as many women want to be a corps director.  What then?

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6 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

I am having a flashback.  It was just 14 months ago that a quintet of protected classes (recited twice) and the name Darcie Aungst were all over a show design announcement.  Now it is an "equality and inclusion committee".

Inclusion?  Really?

And of all times, this moment of maximum irony?

Drum corps WAS a truly inclusive activity, once upon a time.  Now, it is unapologetically focused on being an advanced-placement summer camp for experienced alumni of the scholastic marching arts activities, which themselves are based largely in affluent suburbia.  Drum corps can no longer even create the pretense of being "inclusive" toward the inexperienced and/or at-risk youth that they used to routinely train from scratch back in the day.  

And now, the activity faces its own economic challenges - some of which are of its own making.  Forgive me if I do not hold my breath waiting to see how drum corps renounces its expensive ways, and instead returns to prioritizing outreach to the socioeconomically underprivileged.

Notice that the poor are not one of the groups selected for greater opportunity and inclusion in these virtue signaling exercises.

Well said!

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52 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Virtue signaling isn’t partway towards addressing the problem.  Virtue signaling encumbers addressing the problem and, as a result, contributes to the problem.  

I will leave it to others to decide whether the announcement is virtue signaling.  I personally hope it isn’t, but there are aspects of its nature and rhetoric that I find concerning.  

And given the trends we have seen with organizations rushing out to embrace specific movements they don’t fully understand, with little regard to the harms that may be done to the very communities they claim to support, I can understand why thoughtful people might be skeptical.

Very thoughtful and accurate response. The Cadets announcement includes buzzwords that we are inundated with daily by the media. I don't think that is a coincidence. 

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11 minutes ago, dans said:

Very thoughtful and accurate response. The Cadets announcement includes buzzwords that we are inundated with daily by the media. I don't think that is a coincidence. 

Dilberts Buzzword Bingo anyone? 
 

Not sure what Virtue Signaling means but taking it to mean say the right words but is there substance behind them. Wait and see for me....,

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