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Mandarins - Here We Go Again


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2 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Good grief did you guys really march in Drum Corps!?  You guys are SOFT if you think Ike Jackson was "demeaning" in that video.  Ayala is a relatively small non-affluent high school in Southern California.  They have a really good band and winter guard program and they didn't get there by hugging.  

DC is one thing... HS MB is another....

Years from now will a MB members life be affected more by being competitive and winning a trophy or by being demeaned by adults. I don’t see it as any different than the teacher I had who ripped me a new one in front of the class a few times for no real reason.

By the facial expressions and words of the drum leader (another student) I doubt of what we saw was a one time occurrence. Makes me wonder what we didn’t see.

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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7 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Good grief did you guys really march in Drum Corps!?  You guys are SOFT if you think Ike Jackson was "demeaning" in that video.  

I watched the designated segment of video, and these are my reactions.

1.  This forum is far more abusive than anything I heard in the video.  (And most other Internet public spaces are way worse.)

2.  That said, the guy knew he was on-camera.  I am sure he was on his best behavior during the video.  I think some of the reactions here are based on insight to his behavior off-camera.

(Disclaimer: not condoning even his best behavior)

 

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40 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

I watched the designated segment of video, and these are my reactions.

1.  This forum is far more abusive than anything I heard in the video.  (And most other Internet public spaces are way worse.)

 

Is that the standard for dealing with students? If a SM site is more abusive then it’s ok? 
One time on SM said my family had a cat that was declawed. One response was I should (or responder would?) cut off my fingers to the first knuckle to see how it feels. So anything less drastic is ok?

My point is people who deal with school students should be held to a higher stand than SM or even DC...

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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10 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

I loved the tough ones who also made me feel appreciated.  

This.

Everyone who has marched Drum Corps has had days when they were consistently doing something wrong and got called out on it. 

But there is a difference between 'you're half a count behind - don't listen to the percussion, watch the DM'

and

' <throws drumstick at member> you idiot! - you're always half a count behind - don't listen to the f**cking percussion, watch the GD drum major!'

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38 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Is that the standard for dealing with students? If a SM site is more abusive then it’s ok? 
One time on SM said my family had a cat that was declawed. One response was I should (or responder would?) cut off my fingers to the first knuckle to see how it feels. So anything less drastic is ok?

My point is people who deal with school students should be held to a higher stand than SM or even DC...

Did you read any further in my post... for instance, to where I said I do not condone his behavior?

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15 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

This.

Everyone who has marched Drum Corps has had days when they were consistently doing something wrong and got called out on it. 

But there is a difference between 'you're half a count behind - don't listen to the percussion, watch the DM'

and

' <throws drumstick at member> you idiot! - you're always half a count behind - don't listen to the f**cking percussion, watch the GD drum major!'

Our main drill guy in corps was called Rich the ##### behind his back. He was a screamer but yelled at everyone equally, including BoD members who paid him (this was a Sr corps). Outside of practice it was “hey how are you doing”. So we knew if he chewed on you it was nothing personal.

But understand he has a TOTALLY different persona dealing with HS band and color guard. 👼

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Just now, cixelsyd said:

Did you read any further in my post... for instance, to where I said I do not condone his behavior?

No I read that and agree. I just don’t understand the comparing it to social media.

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9 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Good grief did you guys really march in Drum Corps!?  You guys are SOFT if you think Ike Jackson was "demeaning" in that video.  Ayala is a relatively small non-affluent high school in Southern California.  They have a really good band and winter guard program and they didn't get there by hugging.  

I marched drum corps from 64-72. I also taught HS bands at varying positions from 1971 through 2017. People like Jackson do not belong teaching students who are basically 14-18 years old, IMO. As a band director, if I had somehow had him on my staff I would have read him the riot act about his behavior with my band, just based on the video. If he did not adjust his approach he would have been gone.

However....

A lot of the reaction here is because we have read about his behavior in Reddit and Instagram, and this is one small component, not to mention a video of him at Ayala that was removed from Instagram. If you just saw the video in this thread, you might say the guy is rude and boorish, but that is about it. Look at this video as the tip of a huge iceberg. There is no way this guy should be working with young people in any way, shape or form reviewing the entirety of what has been posted. That includes band, drum corps and winter percussion. 

 

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4 minutes ago, MikeD said:

As a band director, if I had somehow had him on my staff I would have read him the riot act about his behavior with my band, just based on the video. If he did not adjust his approach he would have been gone.

You sound like you would be a great band director.

I was in a band once and there were a few times when the Director got challenged by a member

On more than one occasion his way of dealing with it was to stand in front of everyone and say "band folded - everyone go home."  We went home until we were called to come back. 

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I'd like for people to watch the video in the following link. It made the rounds on twitter and was deeply moving to me.

One may think that this is completely different because it's a father and son, the son being younger than most kids in HS marching band. This is true. But I post this because the father's approach to training (IMO) is exactly right. Even with the most successful band/indoor programs, there will be kids each and every year who are new and they struggle. Some don't know how to handle it because it is, in a sense, an emotional overload.

This video resonates with me because I've experienced it many times as a teacher working with struggling students. As a teacher who knows that introducing advanced technique to kids who have never done this kind of thing before is challenging and requires the proper approach from the very beginning. Setting realistic goals. Yes, being critical because there are so many details, but not to the point of crushing their spirits. And rewarding and praising their efforts when they demonstrate certain levels of achievement. And often even when they fail because you know that it's only a matter of time before they do get it. Being strict is fine, but only when you know they're ready to take that step.

If you lay the proper groundwork on day one with a positive and supportive attitude, you build a level of trust with the students that means everything. Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to have a disciplined approach to instruction and rehearsals. Discipline is not a punishment. It's a means to an end. But discipline which leads to verbal and emotional abuse and establishing an environment of fear and anxiety, especially with kids at this age, is a recipe for disaster. Even it it wins you a big shiny trophy that will gather dust in a trophy case somewhere.

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