Drum Corps in the Post-Covid World - What Role Does DCI Have?


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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

wrong. the brand is BD, SCV, CRown....the names at the top and it's been that way for a long time.

This IS the issue, IMO.

I disagree, but I want to know more of why some seem to agree with Jeff (and the G7 mentality, BTW).

What happens if it’s ONLY seven, not the G7, and they want to perform?

Compete?  Under what rules?  Next year.

Edited by garfield
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Just because you say so doesn’t make it so! A lot of organizations, independent show sponsors, and numerous regional circuits were eroded instead of supported by DCI. It wasn’t until just recentl

You are a nonprofit arts/education organization and you have the resources.

What is needed are visionary leaders like Jim Jones, Don Warren, George  Bonfiglio, Gale Royer, etc.   I’m not sure that they exist in Drum Corps these days. 

2 hours ago, Poppycock said:

 I'm very good at ignoring disparaging intent, not to mention the usual negative stereotypical traits such as ignorance and narrow-mindedness.

Oh please.  Neither you nor Garfield are ignorant or narrow-minded.  You are both intelligent and knowledgeable posters who offer valuable opinions in entertaining ways.  Neither of you are bullies OR victims.  You are two of my favorite contributors.

I must admit I was confused by your post as well, as most of the people you indict seem not to be DCI employees but members of specific corps or otherwise.  Wouldn’t they continue to exist even if the governing structure changes?  Would a new structure take the budgets out of the hands of individual corps?  Would salt be applied to the leeches?

Edited by skevinp
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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Oh please.  Neither you nor Garfield are ignorant or narrow-minded.  You are both intelligent and knowledgeable posters who offer valuable opinions in entertaining ways.  Neither of you are bullies OR victims.  You are two of my favorite contributors.

I must admit I was confused by your post as well, as most of the people you indict seem not to be DCI employees but members of specific corps or otherwise.  Wouldn’t they continue to exist even if the governing structure changes?  Would a new structure take the budgets out of the hands of individual corps?  Would salt be applied to the leeches?

Wow! A fan!  I had no idea, really.  You LOVE me!

Yours is the point and I wasn’t being anything Poppy accused despite the backslapping.  The question is not about the corps or their narcissists or their spending.  The question I pose is about the tour management and activity promotion functions of DCI’s mission.  Who does those in any environment?  Even the Founders created an entity and, so far, I’ve seen lots of presumption about what of DCI’s functions can be better done by the individual corps, but no real evidence to support the claim.  
 

Poppy’s most derisive comments were reserved for single, individual leaches in individual corps, but he did make accusations toward DCI that are worthy of challenge.  To Cavalierly suggest that DCI isn’t a good choice because of their response to accusations or Covid, I’d simply like some corroborative evidence that they handled either poorly.  Poppy will surely snap to the challenge, I’m sure and, until he or someone else does, I’ll reply that DCIs function, and possibly people, are the best option for the activity’s members to acquire a stage on which to perform, as well as a combined and unified message with which to explain, sell, and negotiate it.

Now please, discuss.

(BTW, anyone who’s been mildly paying attention knows that my Poppyseed Popsicle friend and I share many more opinions in posts here than not, not to mention a favoritism for a sharp, sardonic wit.  Something tells me his scales give him very tough skin. An admirable opponent that sheds well on me.)


 

Edited by garfield
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36 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Oh please.  Neither you nor Garfield are ignorant or narrow-minded.  You are both intelligent and knowledgeable posters who offer valuable opinions in entertaining ways.  Neither of you are bullies OR victims.  You are two of my favorite contributors.

I must admit I was confused by your post as well, as most of the people you indict seem not to be DCI employees but members of specific corps or otherwise.  Wouldn’t they continue to exist even if the governing structure changes?  Would a new structure take the budgets out of the hands of individual corps?  Would salt be applied to the leeches?

Thanks for the compliment, and ditto.

Your wit is often the glue here.

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4 hours ago, craiga said:

I'm not sure Jim.  I do know that in BAC the corps doctor takes vital signs etc at the beginning of move in to establish a base line so if they need to compare them should the member became ill at a later date they have that info on hand. I do know notything about vaxes.

Would it make sense that this follows the rules and examples of other summer sports/activities?

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9 minutes ago, garfield said:

Would it make sense that this follows the rules and examples of other summer sports/activities?

My question was do corps require full vaccinations of their members. This tells me nothing as I don’t know what other sports/activities do either. IOW I asked to learn something.... no hidden meaning...

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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38 minutes ago, garfield said:

The question is not about the corps or their narcissists or their spending.  The question I pose is about the tour management and activity promotion functions of DCI’s mission.  Who does those in any environment?  

Almost inevitably, some agency like DCI.  Someone has to herd the cats - they do not herd themselves.

Quote

Even the Founders created an entity and, so far, I’ve seen lots of presumption about what of DCI’s functions can be better done by the individual corps, but no real evidence to support the claim.  

The founders did not just create an entity... they also began staffing it.

Or to be more precise, in 1972 they had an entity with no staff... and no logical tour leading to DCI Championships, no promotional resources, etc.  Then in 1973, the entity began to acquire staff... and began to perform the functions you describe (tour management and activity promotion).

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1 hour ago, skevinp said:

Would a new structure take the budgets out of the hands of individual corps?

It would be a good start! A staff salary cap would too.  Does any organization really need five marimbas or eight towers of speakers and countless microphones? What more is achieved with 154 members vs 128? Is new instrumentation and costumes necessary every season?  What exactly is DCI marketing and to whom, and at what cost? There are guidelines and boundaries for the majority of competitive sports but for drum corps it’s an arms race. So yes a fresh face or independent organization to manage, promote and market may very well be a good thing. 

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5 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Yep, years back I asked why people didn’t try out for “lesser corps” if they didn’t make their dream corps. Most responses were “not worth the money” or “if I couldn’t march xxxx I didn’t want to march anywhere”. Never heard anyone say they wanted to march DCI just individual corps

 

5 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

We have to remember those of us who can remember back to the beginning. Kids today are not local to corps for the most part,kids today aren't starting very young and spending many years in a corps , mostly. Affording more than a year or 2 is even a stretch. Kids also have a lot more choices in life than we did . In a way it's a little sad because of many things missed that we had, although I would love to March in this age. It's also life in the fast lane for kids today. The good and bad of that.

I don’t think Jim’s experience is unique, there are lots of kids who only try out at their dream corps.  This has been a problem, in one form or another, since drum corps began.  But who’s responsibility is it to try to fix that problem, DCI’s or each drum corps?   Kids moving from HS competition and indoor to beyond in their musical career respond overwhelmingly that they know and want the DCI brand, not their favorite corps.  The Vaticinate study clearly showed that the activity has the brand and kids, first, want to march drum corps.  Individual mileage may vary and that study is several years old.

The vast majority of MMs are music majors or have such aspirations.  Doing drum corps is a fun burnishment to music/performance resumes.  Most school districts and many band directors don’t know PC from BAC, but they might know that DCI is the musical Major League.

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13 minutes ago, Poppycock said:

It would be a good start! A staff salary cap would too.  Does any organization really need five marimbas or eight towers of speakers and countless microphones? What more is achieved with 154 members vs 128? Is new instrumentation and costumes necessary every season?  What exactly is DCI marketing and to whom, and at what cost? There are guidelines and boundaries for the majority of competitive sports but for drum corps it’s an arms race. So yes a fresh face or independent organization to manage, promote and market may very well be a good thing. 

You are just PLUCKING my strings now, aren't you?!  In a MINOR key with scratchy irritating articulation!

What, in God's name, would make you think that salary caps, or limitations of any kind, will increase creativity that DRIVES student teaching trends?

(see, sarcasm and hyperbole used to emphasize an, otherwise, vacuous point)

There's SO much meat to discuss here:

Does DCI market?  In what channels do they market?  DCI didn't set the terms of the Arms Race we agree about, the corps did.  Why didn't the corps give DCI the power and authority to implement restrictions on the arms race?

(see, I told everyone: we agree much more than not.  Don't be tempted to the dark side.  LOL)

 

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