Tim K Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 If drum corps formed a union, I wonder if there happened to be a strike, which show would inspire the members more: Crossmen 2013h (“Protest”) or Cavaliers 2016 (“Propaganda”)? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 7 hours ago, garfield said: Nailed it. But maybe necessary in a Varsity world? Varsity wouldn't deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Tim K said: If drum corps formed a union, I wonder if there happened to be a strike, which show would inspire the members more: Crossmen 2013h (“Protest”) or Cavaliers 2016 (“Propaganda”)? Blue Devils Godfather 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 8 hours ago, totaleefree said: I am sure the members would be happy to pay union dues and to have a union rep with each corps making 6 figures. Then politicians would come to them before every election and promise that they will keep other musicians from performing in their territory so long as they fund their next campaign. Then they would have to make sure the corps do not perform in "right to work" states. Maybe force High school bands to unionize in closed shop states. Yup it is a great idea. It's true that any good thing, like a union, can be abused. (And in what fantasy world were government officials not taking bribes, ahem, campaign donations from the bosses who employ the unions' members in hopes of, say, taking the members' unionization rights away from them?) But as others have pointed out, most corps members aren't paid, and in general are unlikely ever to be paid, and thus the kind of potential abuse you describe is presumably impossible. That said, where this conversation might be most useful, and where garfield seemed to start it, is in asking what sorts of useful things unions do for their members, and asking whether DCI members are in need of those useful things, and if so, without a union, how they might be provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: It's true that any good thing, like a union, can be abused. (And in what fantasy world were government officials not taking bribes, ahem, campaign donations from the bosses who employ the unions' members in hopes of, say, taking the members' unionization rights away from them?) But as others have pointed out, most corps members aren't paid, and in general are unlikely ever to be paid, and thus the kind of potential abuse you describe is presumably impossible. That said, where this conversation might be most useful, and where garfield seemed to start it, is in asking what sorts of useful things unions do for their members, and asking whether DCI members are in need of thoseear useful things, and if so, without a union, how they might be provided. I was actually trying to stay out of the subject BUT here I am I guess. Unions? NO, period. Members join for an experience not to control the experience Members join to be taught not to teach Members pay to be taken care of and not to be the adult in the room If a member wants more than being a member then they need to start their own or wait till they have enough exprience to earn a voice in those matters. Now if a member believes they are not getting what they paid for then they have a choice to make. I can't tell you how many young kids over the years who thought they knew all the answers as well as how to fix a show or even design one top to bottom. IMO you are a member or you aren't. I will say after some harsh reality checks a few of those kids became some decent designers or techs in fall and winter programs BUT not before taken down quitea few pegs and LEARNED FROM THEM. A time to learn , a time time to teach. I do think directors are doing this, or should be. They should be the member advocate in each corps to ensure what was promised is delivered With all the members I have interviewed in ALL aspects of the activity they almost always talk about joining for what they see and wanting to be a part of it. Edited August 27, 2020 by GUARDLING 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, GUARDLING said: I was actually trying to stay out of the subject BUT here I am I guess. Unions? NO, period. Members join for an experience not to control the experience Members join to be taught not to teach Members pay to be taken care of and not to be the adult in the room Right, but to go back to what garfield started with, this is what the members negotiated for: "With the green light, we got to work, crafting new structures and implementing changes. We secured an extra half hour for dinner and an extra hour of free time at the end of the day, each day. We secured more free days. We received time every day in the first week for cultural development. We completely revamped our tour job system by mixing the composition of teams. We made a website of every member’s picture and information and gave everyone access to learn about each other. We built a culture of inclusivity, wholesomeness, and care for each other." Setting aside the headline reference to unions, which gets people's attention but doesn't actually control in this situation, should there be a mechanism at all corps by which members can have input on potential changes like these? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: Right, but to go back to what garfield started with, this is what the members negotiated for: "With the green light, we got to work, crafting new structures and implementing changes. We secured an extra half hour for dinner and an extra hour of free time at the end of the day, each day. We secured more free days. We received time every day in the first week for cultural development. We completely revamped our tour job system by mixing the composition of teams. We made a website of every member’s picture and information and gave everyone access to learn about each other. We built a culture of inclusivity, wholesomeness, and care for each other." Setting aside the headline reference to unions, which gets people's attention but doesn't actually control in this situation, should there be a mechanism at all corps by which members can have input on potential changes like these? No other than go to directors if they arent happy. You join for their experience not the one you as a member want to implement. As far as the picture thing many winter programs did this years ago and members ended up not liking it because it opened them up to many on line issues, some scary. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 44 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: Right, but to go back to what garfield started with, this is what the members negotiated for: "With the green light, we got to work, crafting new structures and implementing changes. We secured an extra half hour for dinner and an extra hour of free time at the end of the day, each day. We secured more free days. We received time every day in the first week for cultural development. We completely revamped our tour job system by mixing the composition of teams. We made a website of every member’s picture and information and gave everyone access to learn about each other. We built a culture of inclusivity, wholesomeness, and care for each other." Setting aside the headline reference to unions, which gets people's attention but doesn't actually control in this situation, should there be a mechanism at all corps by which members can have input on potential changes like these? I see nothing wrong with members making suggestions to the management. But they need to be prepared to hear "no". In the above, it appears the management thought the ideas noted were workable. Good for them. A different management might have agreed with some and not others; yet another management team may have just said "no". At the end of the day, it is up to management/staff to provide the experience they believe in the best interest of everybody, and the members to receive the experience provided. That in NO way excuses illegal activities, just to make sure that part is understood. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, MikeD said: I see nothing wrong with members making suggestions to the management. But they need to be prepared to hear "no". In the above, it appears the management thought the ideas noted were workable. Good for them. A different management might have agreed with some and not others; yet another management team may have just said "no". At the end of the day, it is up to management/staff to provide the experience they believe in the best interest of everybody, and the members to receive the experience provided. That in NO way excuses illegal activities, just to make sure that part is understood. kids have the ultimate power....if unhappy they can walk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: kids have the ultimate power....if unhappy they can walk Loyalty has legs. Perceived value will become more important than ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.