Jeff Ream Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Poppycock said: Loyalty has legs. Perceived value will become more important than ever. look at Oregon...after everything in 18, kids left...and they didn't field in 19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiga Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) I think the only sticking point I have with the original statement was the use of the word "negotiated", which does give a bit of an impression of some kind of collective bargaining tilt. If they had just said something like "we exchanged ideas and came up with a bit longer mealtimes and free time, that probably would have been a better use of words. "Negotiated" gives the impression of them getting something from the corps, but what did they give up? Probably nothing, which is fine. In any event, I'm still a bit surprised that they felt the need to lobby for extra time off. I though most corps these days were pretty generous in that regard. Edited August 28, 2020 by craiga 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, craiga said: I think the only sticking point I have with the original statement was the use of the word "negotiated", which does give a bit of an impression of some kind of collective bargaining tilt. If they had just said something like "we exchanged ideas and came up with a bit longer mealtimes and free time, that probably would have been a better use of words. "Negotiated" gives the impression of them getting something from the corps, but what did they give up? Probably nothing, which is fine. In any event, I'm still a bit surprised that they felt the need to lobby for extra time off. I though most corps these days were pretty generous in that regard. Exactly. Thank you. This is my point. "Negotiated"? Even using "convinced" would suggest that staff was not in touch with the desires of the MM. From a different perspective, is there a point where a "good" staff/management would say "Toughen up, buttercup. Drum corps is hard."? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFA1970 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) I don't get this topic. As a lawyer and worked in the labor law field you can't unionize a participation organization like members who pay to be part of it. That includes Drum corp..Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts any little league sports ect. Unions are for people being PAID!!! I thought this was unions for instructors. Now that is a real topic. Who pays union dues for something you pay to participate in. Edited August 28, 2020 by DFA1970 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFA1970 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, garfield said: You're right. It's a dumb subject. You should skip it from now on. --- or --- You might consider, Mr. Bigshot lawyer, how a laaaaayyman's brain works (after doing something somewhat successful for almost four decades): These student leaders of their organization acted as representatives of the entire corps in a session of collective bargaining - "negotiation" is their term - to better the environment and experience they were required to accept as part of their agreement (with their sweat (like workers) and dollars (like consumers) to participate in an activity as a group (like line workers except, instead of sewing cloth or twist things together, they blow and beat music) for an organization that sells it for pay to consumers who ingest the product produced. (Edit: And recognizing that some promptly vomit it back up again.) When, in (I'm presuming) you equally-long participation in drum corps have you ever heard of a member-chosen representative group negotiating for better operating conditions? I've been around for more than a few decades and it's MY first time, for sure. Again - and I am a qualified shill out of love for BK - doesn't the act, by definition, suggest or define that staff and management didn't voluntarily offer these (working) conditions prior to these negotiations? Why not? (Again, not pointing at BK - I'm confident that their experience is exceptional by my peanut butter comparison.) Goodness, it wasn't meant to be that heavy. It's just that the orgs that I have been involved with spend 90% of staff's time being plugged in to, and concerned about, their members' experience. If find it, well, eye-opening that students have to ask, let alone feel compelled to "negotiate" for better conditions. It could very well have been an unfortunate misuse of the example by a young person, but he seemed quite proud of the accomplishment's effort. I tease in earnest and appreciate both your professional and non-profit experience. But don't try to "lawyer" me down because I'm too slippery. I've been disclaimer-dodging hotshot lawyers for 38 years, even as I appreciate the verbal joust. (I am an industry arbitrator - as close to "lawyering" as I care to be - and have been told by more than one that I'd make a stout securities lawyer! (Ewww)) Thanks. Great topic you put forward. And meaningless. Not my lawyer opinion just my own opinion. Edited August 28, 2020 by DFA1970 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, DFA1970 said: Thanks. Great topic you put forward. And meaningless. Not my lawyer opinion just my own opinion. Welcome to DCP. So long as you keep that perspective, you'll fit in perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFA1970 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, garfield said: Welcome to DCP. So long as you keep that perspective, you'll fit in perfectly. So can you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, DFA1970 said: Thanks. Great topic you put forward. And meaningless. Not my lawyer opinion just my own opinion. This reminds me of a quote from Mike Boo during another meaningless thread some time ago (The 990's): "Come for the goofy conspiracies, stay for the intelligent discussion." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFA1970 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, garfield said: This reminds me of a quote from Mike Boo during another meaningless thread some time ago (The 990's): "Come for the goofy conspiracies, stay for the intelligent discussion." 3 minutes ago, garfield said: This reminds me of a quote from Mike Boo during another meaningless thread some time ago (The 990's): "Come for the goofy conspiracies, stay for the intelligent discussion." 3 minutes ago, garfield said: This reminds me of a quote from Mike Boo during another meaningless thread some time ago (The 990's): "Come for the goofy conspiracies, stay for the intelligent discussion." 3 minutes ago, garfield said: This reminds me of a quote from Mike Boo during another meaningless thread some time ago (The 990's): "Come for the goofy conspiracies, stay for the intelligent discussion." 4 minutes ago, garfield said: This reminds me of a quote from Mike Boo during another meaningless thread some time ago (The 990's): "Come for the goofy conspiracies, stay for the intelligent discussion." Ah..Garfield HAS to make the last response. Go for it Garfield. It's your topic. You own it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, garfield said: This reminds me of a quote from Mike Boo during another meaningless thread some time ago (The 990's): "Come for the goofy conspiracies, stay for the intelligent discussion." I thought that was the other way around. (Would not be the first time... ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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