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Props like today have been around since the early mid to late 80's. And it will continue to be around. Some are tastefully done and some are not. But that's part of corps near the top and who's not. But even props in the lower half are pretty cool like the Mandarins in 2018. And near the top Bluecoats in 2017 with that huge ramp for running up and down that really was more of a distraction. 

Edited by DFA1970
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1 hour ago, rpbobcat said:

Its apparent from your post on the "Boston Crusaders 2021"  thread that  BAC is, as you post ,not  looking at 2021 as a "placeholder" year.

BAC has determined  that it is in their best interest to take on the financial burden  of putting together an elaborate show, for a very limited number of exhibition performances.

Hard to see how they can recoup the costs, unless they have enough funds "in the bank" to cover the season.

Will it work out, remains to be seen.

 

@rpbobcat If you are on Facebook, this video might answer your question as how the Crusaders are approaching the 2021 "season".

fast forward to minutes 42:27 - 44:35 approximately

https://www.facebook.com/BostonCrusaders/videos/774073583301282

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11 minutes ago, Barneveld said:

@rpbobcat If you are on Facebook, this video might answer your question as how the Crusaders are approaching the 2021 "season".

fast forward to minutes 42:27 - 44:35 approximately

https://www.facebook.com/BostonCrusaders/videos/774073583301282

I'm not on facebook.

Tried the link,but NG.

Thanks anyway.

 

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7 minutes ago, rpbobcat said:

I'm not on facebook.

Tried the link,but NG.

Thanks anyway.

 

I don't know how (if it's even possible, I doubt it) to save/transfer a video from Facebook. Sorry, I tried.

For those of you that are on Facebook, the video I posted has a couple of  clips from the brass line, the show trailer which was released previously, and approximately a minute portion of the ballad which released yesterday. Information about the props and online access to the corps, during the season, is also included in the video.

The entire video starts at the 26:20 mark.

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21 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Yet one has to look at why the failures of corps in the 70s were. None of it had to do with advances but many with bad management, lack of vision or reluctance for the future or change, community and church support which changed etc etc. One also has to look at what the young member of the 60s and 70s were verses what young people today have at their fingertips, quite different. We didn't have a lot to spread our wings , today VERY different. The good and bad of that I suppose.

While I do agree that in many cases, bad management, lack of vision, etc. were reasons why many corps failed, and may very well be the case for a number of top corps, there are a number of other reasons for fewer corps today. 

For church sponsored corps, in many cases it was not expected they would last forever, whether it be a drum corps, band, or drill team. Some were successful and in the Boston area, as the corps got more successful, they broke away from the parishes. The remaining parish affiliated corps lasted as long as kids were interested. Many of the corps that were sponsored by Catholic parishes were very well run. Some of course were not. Economics and changes in society played a major role. I know of two parishes that could not support their successful drum corps because they had to hire lay teachers for the school. Schools were integral to many parishes, drum corps was a luxury. If the choice is keeping the school or drum corps, the school is going to win. 

Advancement of some corps during the DCI era did play a role and that can't be denied. In the 1970's you had some corps that could afford the new two valved bugles while some smaller corps were still using one valve bugles with rotors. Parents couldn't afford the dues and fundraising was not a viable option during the economic downturn of the 1970's. In the early 70's a scrappy corps with lousy equipment could possibly do at least o.k. if the show was clean, by the end if the decade as GE became more important, even with a clean performance tic wise, there was little chance the score would be above 50. 

As DCI grew and corps improved, there was a bit of "How ya gonna keep them down on the farm..." A midsized corps could travel a few weekends a year, perhaps compete in a show such as World Open or US Open, maybe travel to VFW or AL every few years, and that as fine. They were never intended to have extensive tours that DCI offered.

A theory I have had for a decline in corps is a failure of effective recruiting which could be seen as a failure of vision or willingness to change as you mention. I know of one prominent corps of the 70’s that often recruited from CYO bands that competed in the same circuit but did not allow its members to march in high school bands in public schools (Catholic high schools usually did not have bands). Lots of corps did not recruit from high school programs until they had no choice. While economics played a role with North Star's folding, recruitment did too. From all accounts and from what I knew of the corps, North Star was a great place to march. They were competitive, marching members often said the corps was not cliquey and people got along, but their recruiting efforts were not far reaching. 27th, Bridgemen, and Garfield loved the fact smaller corps that disbanded chose to march with them. Garfield moved up in the rankings and recruitment was never a problem again, but when there were fewer corps breaking up, recruitment became more difficult for corps that relied on attracting former members of other corps. 

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1 hour ago, Tim K said:

While I do agree that in many cases, bad management, lack of vision, etc. were reasons why many corps failed, and may very well be the case for a number of top corps, there are a number of other reasons for fewer corps today. 

For church sponsored corps, in many cases it was not expected they would last forever, whether it be a drum corps, band, or drill team. Some were successful and in the Boston area, as the corps got more successful, they broke away from the parishes. The remaining parish affiliated corps lasted as long as kids were interested. Many of the corps that were sponsored by Catholic parishes were very well run. Some of course were not. Economics and changes in society played a major role. I know of two parishes that could not support their successful drum corps because they had to hire lay teachers for the school. Schools were integral to many parishes, drum corps was a luxury. If the choice is keeping the school or drum corps, the school is going to win. 

Advancement of some corps during the DCI era did play a role and that can't be denied. In the 1970's you had some corps that could afford the new two valved bugles while some smaller corps were still using one valve bugles with rotors. Parents couldn't afford the dues and fundraising was not a viable option during the economic downturn of the 1970's. In the early 70's a scrappy corps with lousy equipment could possibly do at least o.k. if the show was clean, by the end if the decade as GE became more important, even with a clean performance tic wise, there was little chance the score would be above 50. 

As DCI grew and corps improved, there was a bit of "How ya gonna keep them down on the farm..." A midsized corps could travel a few weekends a year, perhaps compete in a show such as World Open or US Open, maybe travel to VFW or AL every few years, and that as fine. They were never intended to have extensive tours that DCI offered.

A theory I have had for a decline in corps is a failure of effective recruiting which could be seen as a failure of vision or willingness to change as you mention. I know of one prominent corps of the 70’s that often recruited from CYO bands that competed in the same circuit but did not allow its members to march in high school bands in public schools (Catholic high schools usually did not have bands). Lots of corps did not recruit from high school programs until they had no choice. While economics played a role with North Star's folding, recruitment did too. From all accounts and from what I knew of the corps, North Star was a great place to march. They were competitive, marching members often said the corps was not cliquey and people got along, but their recruiting efforts were not far reaching. 27th, Bridgemen, and Garfield loved the fact smaller corps that disbanded chose to march with them. Garfield moved up in the rankings and recruitment was never a problem again, but when there were fewer corps breaking up, recruitment became more difficult for corps that relied on attracting former members of other corps. 

All true, The world was and did change, not just the activity. 

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23 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Costs of running a corps going through the roof. And you didn’t have to be a touring corps to get nailed (see Senior corps of the era).

True, gone are the days of free fields for practice, small church halls, donated things. Even to run a darn winter guard costs can be up around 20 grand just for  a minimal ( not a gym )  rehearsal  site and thats only a day or 2 a week and not year round.

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13 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

A follow up post talks about "high tech props".

To me,its kind of hard to justify spending a lot of money on props for few exhibition shows.

 

BUT, is it their time to shine, a production extravaganza that doesn't have to compete with others. Could make for a great recruiting tool with not alot of competition....hmmmm

Could it also stir alot of attention and chatter toward them and things to come  , again without competition  for that attention, Could be a very smart and tactical move. 

Edited by GUARDLING
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4 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:Could it also stir alot of attention and chatter toward them and things to come  , again without competition  for that attention, Could be a very smart and tactical move. 

Sorry to burst your bubble, the big dog always eats first. BD continues to be the Crème de la crème. Haven’t seen anything that’s going to change that anytime soon. 

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1 minute ago, Poppycock said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, the big dog always eats first. BD continues to be the Crème de la crème. Haven’t seen anything that’s going to change that anytime soon. 

Oh no bubble busted here, I hear ya for sure . It could present a possibility for BAC, Where it goes after could be another story

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