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2 minutes ago, karuna said:

Many call putting coins in the slots an investment!   Sure it could pay off but what are the odds?

And if you do hit 3 liberty bells ? 

Better recruitment?  I don't think they need to improve that. They're getting good kids already. 

Better design?  They already hired a top notch design team.  

Better....what? 

If you want to "contend" you have to trade wins with BD in most captions night in and night out over an entire season.  Crown did that.  Bloo did that.   

2021 won't change anything. 

Wanna win?  Simple.  March, play, spin, dance better than BD.  

And that ain't gonna happen in 21.  

Theres only so many slots at the top, to progress it has little to do with talent ( all corps have talent up there )at that point but knocking someone else off. Thats no easy task, the attention grabber, the talked about, the one who pounces on opportunity, gets the chance to possibly change their course. 

I can agree with do things better to beat anyone ahead of you but often it can be about other things added to that. 2008 comes to mind IMO

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2 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Theres only so many slots at the top, to progress it has little to do with talent ( all corps have talent up there )at that point but knocking someone else off. Thats no easy task, the attention grabber, the talked about, the one who pounces on opportunity, gets the chance to possibly change their course. 

I can agree with do things better to beat anyone ahead of you but often it can be about other things added to that. 2008 comes to mind IMO

2008 certainly proves that emotion can win the day even in the minds of the judges.  But there's no formula for that.  It magically happens and you just hang on tight and enjoy the ride.  

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Just now, karuna said:

2008 certainly proves that emotion can win the day even in the minds of the judges.  But there's no formula for that.  It magically happens and you just hang on tight and enjoy the ride.  

was all about the build up, the frenzy created...oppurtunity...formula? naw maybe not, a plan to grab attention especially if talent backs it, sure been done and often through the years, maybe every year.

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8 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

was all about the build up, the frenzy created...oppurtunity...formula? naw maybe not, a plan to grab attention especially if talent backs it, sure been done and often through the years, maybe every year.

IMO big high tech screens, 55 guard and playing Flight of the Bumblebee is not going to carry over to winning in 2022. Want to beat BD; fake hype is the easy part, beating BD in any caption let alone every night is the hard part. 

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2 minutes ago, Poppycock said:

IMO big high tech screens, 55 guard and playing Flight of the Bumblebee is not going to carry over to winning in 2022. Want to beat BD; fake hype is the easy part, beating BD in any caption let alone every night is the hard part. 

This I can agree with 🙂

Edited by GUARDLING
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On 6/6/2021 at 8:20 PM, JimF-LowBari said:

Costs of running a corps going through the roof. And you didn’t have to be a touring corps to get nailed (see Senior corps of the era).

the four biggest costs of running a drum corps today are:

 

food

fuel

housing

insurance

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14 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

Its apparent from your post on the "Boston Crusaders 2021"  thread that  BAC is, as you post ,not  looking at 2021 as a "placeholder" year.

BAC has determined  that it is in their best interest to take on the financial burden  of putting together an elaborate show, for a very limited number of exhibition performances.

Hard to see how they can recoup the costs, unless they have enough funds "in the bank" to cover the season.

Will it work out, remains to be seen.

 

well they do run a show that is usually successful so that will pay some bills.

 

and with not everyone going to Indy, the pie gets divided among fewer players

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5 hours ago, Tim K said:

While I do agree that in many cases, bad management, lack of vision, etc. were reasons why many corps failed, and may very well be the case for a number of top corps, there are a number of other reasons for fewer corps today. 

For church sponsored corps, in many cases it was not expected they would last forever, whether it be a drum corps, band, or drill team. Some were successful and in the Boston area, as the corps got more successful, they broke away from the parishes. The remaining parish affiliated corps lasted as long as kids were interested. Many of the corps that were sponsored by Catholic parishes were very well run. Some of course were not. Economics and changes in society played a major role. I know of two parishes that could not support their successful drum corps because they had to hire lay teachers for the school. Schools were integral to many parishes, drum corps was a luxury. If the choice is keeping the school or drum corps, the school is going to win. 

Advancement of some corps during the DCI era did play a role and that can't be denied. In the 1970's you had some corps that could afford the new two valved bugles while some smaller corps were still using one valve bugles with rotors. Parents couldn't afford the dues and fundraising was not a viable option during the economic downturn of the 1970's. In the early 70's a scrappy corps with lousy equipment could possibly do at least o.k. if the show was clean, by the end if the decade as GE became more important, even with a clean performance tic wise, there was little chance the score would be above 50. 

As DCI grew and corps improved, there was a bit of "How ya gonna keep them down on the farm..." A midsized corps could travel a few weekends a year, perhaps compete in a show such as World Open or US Open, maybe travel to VFW or AL every few years, and that as fine. They were never intended to have extensive tours that DCI offered.

A theory I have had for a decline in corps is a failure of effective recruiting which could be seen as a failure of vision or willingness to change as you mention. I know of one prominent corps of the 70’s that often recruited from CYO bands that competed in the same circuit but did not allow its members to march in high school bands in public schools (Catholic high schools usually did not have bands). Lots of corps did not recruit from high school programs until they had no choice. While economics played a role with North Star's folding, recruitment did too. From all accounts and from what I knew of the corps, North Star was a great place to march. They were competitive, marching members often said the corps was not cliquey and people got along, but their recruiting efforts were not far reaching. 27th, Bridgemen, and Garfield loved the fact smaller corps that disbanded chose to march with them. Garfield moved up in the rankings and recruitment was never a problem again, but when there were fewer corps breaking up, recruitment became more difficult for corps that relied on attracting former members of other corps. 

great points. plus North Star let Howdy in

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2 hours ago, karuna said:

Many call putting coins in the slots an investment!   Sure it could pay off but what are the odds?

And if you do hit 3 liberty bells ? 

Better recruitment?  I don't think they need to improve that. They're getting good kids already. 

Better design?  They already hired a top notch design team.  

Better....what? 

If you want to "contend" you have to trade wins with BD in most captions night in and night out over an entire season.  Crown did that.  Bloo did that.   

2021 won't change anything. 

Wanna win?  Simple.  March, play, spin, dance better than BD.  

And that ain't gonna happen in 21.  

so you mention Bloo while discussing Boston.

 

so lets look at things here...Bloo first medaled in 2010 after many years of being anywhere from 5-9 (not counting 99). Then after 10, they medaled again in 14, then finally won in 16. havent won since but got really, really close and quite possibly coulda/shoulda won in 19.

 

so the "new" Boston just really got rolling in 17. They have not medaled yet, and have made it to 5th what 2 times since 2000?

 

these things take time. every corps out there not named BD has had ups and downs, and heck even for a while BD was in that 4th place rut in the 90's and 2000's before they exploded in 07 and never looked back. even Crown took a while from their 2003 rebound til they won in 13.

 

Phantom? ups and downs. Same for SCV, Cavies...Madison and Cadets definitely down lately....can they bounce back?

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1 hour ago, karuna said:

2008 certainly proves that emotion can win the day even in the minds of the judges.  But there's no formula for that.  It magically happens and you just hang on tight and enjoy the ride.  

so can incredible percussion vs. a  percussive finals night disaster

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