Props an unnecessary necessity or

[JimF-LowBari]

2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

We keep hearing this refrain about "bad management" being the explanation for the great downturn in corps population in the 1970s (and 1980s, and so on).  Evidently, management was much better in the 1950s and 1960s, judging from the number of corps and the growth of that number back then.  Why do you think management got so bad all of a sudden in the 1970s?

Before MikeD jumps in with something we both agree with I’ll say it first. 😈 How many of those 100s of corps lasted more than a few years? Corps going away wasn’t a new problem. The problem is after the 70s or so there were no longer new corps being created to replace the ones who disbanded

[Jurassic Lancer]

2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

We keep hearing this refrain about "bad management" being the explanation for the great downturn in corps population in the 1970s (and 1980s, and so on).  Evidently, management was much better in the 1950s and 1960s, judging from the number of corps and the growth of that number back then.  Why do you think management got so bad all of a sudden in the 1970s?

Actually, We have heard a myriad of reasons for the drop-off in corps population, many have been expounded upon in this very thread. These and other reasons have been discussed endlessly through the years on DCP. There has been poor management in every era and effective management, too, but times, they are a changin’ and will keep on changing.

[cixelsyd]

9 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Before MikeD jumps in with something we both agree with I’ll say it first. 😈 How many of those 100s of corps lasted more than a few years? 

Hundreds... but I understand the point that some corps came and went, generally speaking.

Quote

Corps going away wasn’t a new problem. The problem is after the 70s or so there were no longer new corps being created to replace the ones who disbanded

If we accept that premise, then the next question follows inevitably.

• Hundreds of drum corps were formed by churches.
• Hundreds of drum corps were formed by American Legion posts.
• Hundreds of drum corps were formed by VFW posts.
• DCI has not formed a single drum corps.

Your observation makes it pretty clear what would happen if the activity moved away from churches and civic organizations and toward DCI... a genocidal decrease in corps population.  Was that the greater example of "bad management"?

 

 

 

[keystone3ply]

3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

We keep hearing this refrain about "bad management" being the explanation for the great downturn in corps population in the 1970s (and 1980s, and so on).  Evidently, management was much better in the 1950s and 1960s, judging from the number of corps and the growth of that number back then.  Why do you think management got so bad all of a sudden in the 1970s?

Weed, the"Devil's Lettuce", Quaaludes, Acid, "Angels in the Sky", "Mello Yellow"?   

Back on topic @:40, here's a 6k lb. prop that uses a generator equipped with industrial hydraulics: 

 

 

[JimF-LowBari]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

Hundreds... but I understand the point that some corps came and went, generally speaking.

If we accept that premise, then the next question follows inevitably.

• Hundreds of drum corps were formed by churches.
• Hundreds of drum corps were formed by American Legion posts.
• Hundreds of drum corps were formed by VFW posts.
• DCI has not formed a single drum corps.

Your observation makes it pretty clear what would happen if the activity moved away from churches and civic organizations and toward DCI... a genocidal decrease in corps population.  Was that the greater example of "bad management"?

 

 

 

Did the activity move away from the sponsoring churches. Posts etc? Or did the sponsoring churches, Posts, etc move away from the activity? American Legion/VfW membership and number of Posts has gone down as highest membership was due to  WWI and WWII vets. Know of two local Posts (one VFW and one AL) who keep alive with social memberships. Not to be nasty that means cheaper beer for the members and many use it. Bottom line is the glory days of both AL and VFW have been gone for a while.

Understand city churches sponsored good number of corps. Having gone through it I know that city churches have also taken a huge hit since the 50s/60s as people went to the suburbs. Bottom line is these groups can’t spend the money on activities like they used to. Even if we went back to local non touring mode many places couldn’t afford that. That is if they still exist. 

If you think DCI was the only cause, I disagree. Asked this 20 years old and never got a response from anyone. If DCI is the main reason for decline in number of corps, how does this explain the huge percentage of loss in the Senior/all age area

Edited June 8, 2021 by JimF-LowBari

[Brian Tuma]

1 hour ago, keystone3ply said:

Weed, the"Devil's Lettuce", Quaaludes, Acid, "Angels in the Sky", "Mello Yellow"?   

Back on topic @:40, here's a 6k lb. prop that uses a generator equipped with industrial hydraulics: 

 

 

At least it covered up the Colts’ helmet. I’ll take more props or tarps that accomplish that. 

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Did the activity move away from the sponsoring churches. Posts etc? Or did the sponsoring churches, Posts, etc move away from the activity? 

In 1972, the fledgling DCI decided that their corps would boycott the American Legion and VFW national contests.  AL and VFW still held those events for the benefit of dozens of other corps (and two or three DCI corps who just could not afford to cut those ties).  Seems clear who was pulling away from whom.

Quote

If you think DCI was the only cause, I disagree. 

Not saying (or thinking) that DCI was the only cause.  None of this happened in a vacuum, so there is no "only cause".  But also... 

Quote

Asked this 20 years old and never got a response from anyone. If DCI is the main reason for decline in number of corps, how does this explain the huge percentage of loss in the Senior/all age area

... to state it with more accuracy, it is not "DCI", but rather, the elitist principles on which DCI was founded and operated which contributed to this depopulation.  DCA shares many of those principles, and so the senior activity has had similar experiences.

[JimF-LowBari]

12 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

In 1972, the fledgling DCI decided that their corps would boycott the American Legion and VFW national contests.  AL and VFW still held those events for the benefit of dozens of other corps (and two or three DCI corps who just could not afford to cut those ties).  Seems clear who was pulling away from whom.

Not saying (or thinking) that DCI was the only cause.  None of this happened in a vacuum, so there is no "only cause".  But also... 

... to state it with more accuracy, it is not "DCI", but rather, the elitist principles on which DCI was founded and operated which contributed to this depopulation.  DCA shares many of those principles, and so the senior activity has had similar experiences.

And your experience with or knowledge of Senior (not necessarily DCA) corps in the 70s is? Have heard first hand what killed some of these corps and trying to be elite wasn’t the problem.

[cixelsyd]

4 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

And your experience with or knowledge of Senior (not necessarily DCA) corps in the 70s is? Have heard first hand what killed some of these corps and trying to be elite wasn’t the problem.

By "elitism", I meant the practice of only providing real service/support to a small number of the more elite corps (i.e. member corps), and simultaneously using the other corps (i.e. non-member corps) without providing them commensurate benefits.

[JimF-LowBari]

Just now, cixelsyd said:

By "elitism", I meant the practice of only providing real service/support to a small number of the more elite corps (i.e. member corps), and simultaneously using the other corps (i.e. non-member corps) without providing them commensurate benefits.

Ok… starting to see your point clearer. Could you explain “using the non-member corps”? Trying to fit it in DCA rules at the time. And as background during my 6 years we went from non-member to associate (11-14) member to full (1-10) member so had experience in all areas.