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On 6/8/2021 at 3:36 PM, JimF-LowBari said:

Did the activity move away from the sponsoring churches. Posts etc? Or did the sponsoring churches, Posts, etc move away from the activity? American Legion/VfW membership and number of Posts has gone down as highest membership was due to  WWI and WWII vets. Know of two local Posts (one VFW and one AL) who keep alive with social memberships. Not to be nasty that means cheaper beer for the members and many use it. Bottom line is the glory days of both AL and VFW have been gone for a while.

Understand city churches sponsored good number of corps. Having gone through it I know that city churches have also taken a huge hit since the 50s/60s as people went to the suburbs. Bottom line is these groups can’t spend the money on activities like they used to. Even if we went back to local non touring mode many places couldn’t afford that. That is if they still exist. 

If you think DCI was the only cause, I disagree. Asked this 20 years old and never got a response from anyone. If DCI is the main reason for decline in number of corps, how does this explain the huge percentage of loss in the Senior/all age area

When it comes to church groups, specifically Catholic Church sponsored corps in the Boston Archdiocese, there’s no one reason for moving away from sponsorship.

Boston Crusaders, St. Mary’s Cardinals of Beverly, Holy Family Defenders, all grew too big and the splits had rocky moments but overall were pretty much amicable. 

There are at least four versions and many variations of the IC Reveries case. The senior corps (senior in Boston was still a junior corps) was disbanded by an angry pastor after the 1966  VFW sit in. That is the only detail the various versions agree on, but the feeder corps remained and later was one of the corps that merged to form North Star. The disbanded senior corps became 27th Lancers. Even if the 1966 sit in did not happen, Reveries would have either split from the parish or a new corps would have been formed. George Bonfiglio’s vision for drum corps was too big for a parish activity and while I know those affiliated with 27th view the pastor of the time negatively and some of 27th’s rivals see him as wonderful and his reputation maligned, regardless of who is correct, his parish was his ship and the two would have eventually collided. 

St. Francis Sancians of Weymouth was a bit on again/off again regarding sponsorship and my understanding is it depended on parish staff.

The disbandment of St. Kevin’s Emerald Knights of Dorchester and St. Rose Scarlet Lancers of Chelsea was largely due to a change of demographics. Majestic Knights of Charlestown seemed to die a slow death. I believe they were independent at the end.

By the 1970’s, corps outgrew the CYO rules. For any CYO competitive activity, whether it be drum corps, bands, drill teams, or athletics, 75% of the members had to be Catholic and registered members of the parish, 15% could be non Catholic but needed to live in the parish boundaries, 10% could be recruited from outside the parish but needed the permission of their home parish to participate. While it may sound restrictive, given the demographics it meant most kids could participate. As recruiting became more difficult, the number of non parishioners participating sometimes was as high as 70%. The band I was in is a good example. When I joined, the majority were members of the sponsoring parish. When I left, it was about 60% non parish. The CYO Circuit waved the the rules for many drum corps, drill teams, and bands but the athletic teams still had to follow the recruitment policies. Many parishes believed it was unfair for musical activities to compete with exemptions but not the sports teams. Others wondered why the parish sponsored an activity for so many non parishioners. As a priest I think allowing any young person who wants to march to do so is the best idea but as a pastor/administrator who has to budget, I understand the financial concerns.

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On 6/8/2021 at 6:08 PM, JimF-LowBari said:

Ok… starting to see your point clearer. Could you explain “using the non-member corps”? 

Maybe... if I can find a way around the "500 internal server error" that prevents me from posting the whole thought.

Both DCI and DCA run based on the model of haves and have-nots.  Some of their corps are "members".  They get access to all the shows they want/need, with enhanced pay (membership has its benefits).  Meanwhile, there are other corps who are not members (that includes "associate members" and other such euphemisms) who get less access to shows and less pay.

These circuits were created for the purpose of establishing/maintaining a sustainable operating model for competing drum corps.  Why, then, do we have these seemingly permanent underclasses?  It is not fair, equitable, or even IMO ethical.  Well, thanks to several other contributors to this thread, I can explain why (see next post).

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(continued from previous post)

Evidently, the costlier forms of activity the top groups wanted were not sustainable.  They could only afford to provide membership benefits to a small number of corps.  Their member corps were not enough to fill their own show lineups, and they could not stage championship events comparable in scale to AL/VFW Nationals or World Open using only the member corps of a closed club.  Both DCA and DCI have therefore relied on other corps to fill the gaps, making their shows and/or tours viable.  And they have opened the clubs to allow the possibility of a select few other corps obtaining membership.  Using that as a lure to string them along in continued underclass participation, the DCA and DCI Championship events enjoy the draw of a full-scale open championship without having to pay the underclass their fair share of the profits.  

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(continued from previous post)

Jim, I think your experiences marching with Westshoremen illustrated this practice, as the corps transitioned from non-member to member with DCA and gained access to shows and pay.

Edited by cixelsyd
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7 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Back in my day there was a “lesser corps” circuit that ran shows in smaller places for cheaper prices. To host a DCA sanctioned show a host had to provide set amount of prize money and these places couldn’t raise the ticket revenue for the cost. So they held the lesser circuit shows with a smaller ticket price. Problem in the late 70s was as costs went up even the lesser corps needed a bigger prize money payout. So this raised the show costs and lot of places quit having shows as they couldn’t afford it or they could make the money doing other things. So corps had to travel further to shows which jacked up travel expense, which meant they needed higher prize payout, which meant show costs went up…. repeat vicious circle. Edit: forgot as shows upper the ticket prices less people attended so eventually hosts took in even less money. 

You understand the vicious circle of how less corps = more cost per corps.  Thank you so much for explaining that.

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

the DCA and DCI Championship events enjoy the draw of a full-scale open championship without having to pay the underclass their fair share of the profits.  

I’ll let Jeff or someone explain the current DCA method of payment for Championship weekend as I don’t know

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7 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Was in a bunch of these lesser circuit shows for a few years and watched as they went away. Top of that the economy went bad in some areas which hurt membership and sponsorship in their local corps. Lack of corps killed that circuit apparently

That may have happened twice.  RCA fits your description perfectly as the 1970s drew to a close.  Then ICA sprang up a couple of years later, and performed a similar role to RCA in the 1980s, winding down in the early 1990s.  Then nothing sprang up to replace it.  DCA found themselves with only 13 corps at championships in 1993, and no convenient underclass to replenish from.

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