JimF-LowBari Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: (continued from previous post) Jim, I think your experiences marching with Westshoremen illustrated this practice, as the corps transitioned from non-member to member with DCA and gained access to shows and pay. Management had multi year plan to work up to DCA membership for the $$$$. Some of the other corps for whatever reasons were content with being in the other circuit. Being a full (top 10) DCA was not the “be all” for them. Edited June 10, 2021 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 As a fan, love ‘em...unless they suck. Mostly they suck. As an instructor, absolutely hate them. The implementation burden placed on everyone is ridiculous. (90% of that burden goes to membership, which is the last place it should go.) But seriously, designers have to think of them (mostly trial and error), builders have to make them (mostly trial and error), corps have to pay for them and the transportation, and worst of all: membership has to transport, assemble, disassemble, and implement them into the show. It’s a testament to the astronomical talent of the membership of championship level drum corps that they can still perform at such high levels, even though rehearsal and warmup time is severely impacted by managing props. Judges love them, thus they’re not going away, no matter how poorly they’re integrated into the show. Same deal with electronics: have to use them to get points, even if horribly implemented. I predict a future where DCI charges admission to the warmup area, because more fans will start doing that instead of going to shows. The cost is getting crazy, and half the shows are unwatchable because of poor prop/electronic integration. 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: That may have happened twice. RCA fits your description perfectly as the 1970s drew to a close. Then ICA sprang up a couple of years later, and performed a similar role to RCA in the 1980s, winding down in the early 1990s. Then nothing sprang up to replace it. DCA found themselves with only 13 corps at championships in 1993, and no convenient underclass to replenish from. Ok you know the names as I wasn’t sure. I actually was in both RCA and ICA. From what I can tell RCA died off as the number of member corps died off. As for ICA I wasn’t following so not sure what happened. With only 13 Sr corps showing up for DCA my guess would be all those corps could get into DCA shows so ICA was no longer needed. And only ICA corps I can think from mid 80s that were still around 1993 was Westshore, Rochester Crusaders and Empire. For RCA (last championship 1978) Westshore was only corps left (off top of my head). Thing to remember is neither RCA nor ICA was meant as a feeder circuit for DCA. They were distinct circuits that had some corps competing in both. Edited June 10, 2021 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Then who were they delegating that role to? (And if the answer is "no one", maybe the "bad management" was in that oversight.) Corps like all of the activity form their own groups. DCI, WGI, DCA is not responsible for forming organizations, never were, unless I missed something in the past several decades. " Bad Management, good management, reluctant management " means Corps management and their individual management to move forward or not. AS it was then Edited June 10, 2021 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 5 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Maybe... if I can find a way around the "500 internal server error" that prevents me from posting the whole thought. Both DCI and DCA run based on the model of haves and have-nots. Some of their corps are "members". They get access to all the shows they want/need, with enhanced pay (membership has its benefits). Meanwhile, there are other corps who are not members (that includes "associate members" and other such euphemisms) who get less access to shows and less pay. These circuits were created for the purpose of establishing/maintaining a sustainable operating model for competing drum corps. Why, then, do we have these seemingly permanent underclasses? It is not fair, equitable, or even IMO ethical. Well, thanks to several other contributors to this thread, I can explain why (see next post). drum corps has always been haves and have nots. the issue today is how to get kids to do something not at the DCI level? high school marching band BITD was not anywhere close to what it is today and there was no WGI nor was indoor anywhere close to what it is now locally. plus the cost just to do "local" corps isnt cheap. you need equipment from somewhere. you need insurance. gotta feed them when you're together as the "busses are pulling into McDonalds" mode for every meal is unsustainable. rehearse where for how much? insurance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: I’ll let Jeff or someone explain the current DCA method of payment for Championship weekend as I don’t know i'm not sure how it works anymore. since there were only 14 corps in 19 at a #### location, i am sure everyone made something. not sure how much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonStaff Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 18 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: I’m giving a history lesson.. no idea what you’re talking about… Original reply with "and thats the bottom line" youtube clip should have been a hint. In that quoted post you used "the bottom line is" a couple of times and it was funny. YLofHMV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, WilsonStaff said: Original reply with "and thats the bottom line" youtube clip should have been a hint. In that quoted post you used "the bottom line is" a couple of times and it was funny. YLofHMV Lol having one of those weeks where I miss stuff right in front me. Somehow saw “bottom line” and was thinking corps finances. Gotcha now 😆 Edited June 10, 2021 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: drum corps has always been haves and have nots. Sorry, but that is not accurate. Nobody in the history of drum corps had an operating model using both member corps and non-member corps to create systemic haves/have-nots until DCA and DCI came along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: i'm not sure how it works anymore. since there were only 14 corps in 19 at a #### location, i am sure everyone made something. not sure how much Thanks just wanted to get the point across that Class A or corps that are not in the top DO get paid. And if the problem is DCA treatment of non-top corps, then why have lot of top corps folded….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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