Props an unnecessary necessity or

[cixelsyd]

41 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Thanks just wanted to get the point across that Class A or corps that are not in the top DO get paid. And if the problem is DCA treatment of non-top corps, then why have lot of top corps folded….. 

I underlined one word of your post above, so as to point out that I do not see anyone saying or implying that this is the only unresolved problem DCA faces.

It is a big one, though.  Are they down to 13 corps again now?

[JimF-LowBari]

32 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

I underlined one word of your post above, so as to point out that I do not see anyone saying or implying that this is the only unresolved problem DCA faces.

It is a big one, though.  Are they down to 13 corps again now?

Ok how is DCA not treating any of the corps correctly? What is DCA doing that has the number of active corps down? See generalities but no specifics.

Edited June 10, 2021 by JimF-LowBari

[cixelsyd]

27 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Ok how is DCA not treating any of the corps correctly? 

I cannot answer that question, since it is based on something I never said in the first place.

Quote

What is DCA doing that has the number of active corps down? See generalities but no specifics.

What were we just discussing?  In fact, it was you who described the vicious circle of increasing challenge that comes with a smaller population of corps.  And it was you (with credit to MikeD) who identified the declining birth rate of new corps, rather than the death rate, as what changed five decades ago.  When those two observations are put together, it is only logical to ask what the plan was (or should have been) when these entities decided to move away from organizations who had established means of birthing new corps.

So the answer to your question is not just what they ARE doing (i.e. creating these have vs. have-not circuits), but also what they ARE NOT doing (i.e. something, anything, preferably everything they can to address the declining birth rate of new corps).

[JimF-LowBari]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

I cannot answer that question, since it is based on something I never said in the first place.

What were we just discussing?  In fact, it was you who described the vicious circle of increasing challenge that comes with a smaller population of corps.  And it was you (with credit to MikeD) who identified the declining birth rate of new corps, rather than the death rate, as what changed five decades ago.  When those two observations are put together, it is only logical to ask what the plan was (or should have been) when these entities decided to move away from organizations who had established means of birthing new corps.

So the answer to your question is not just what they ARE doing (i.e. creating these have vs. have-not circuits), but also what they ARE NOT doing (i.e. something, anything, preferably everything they can to address the declining birth rate of new corps).

Now I see the confusion. So the question is what can/should DCI and DCA do to address the lack of new corps. Also was confused as you were posting about the have and have not corps in the circuits. Sounded like if a corps is a “have not” then the circuit is not treating them correctly.

20+ years ago I was on council of a declining (now closed) city church. Attended sessions on what had happened, what was going on and what could be done. The hard truth was with changes to society and the city itself nothing could be done to turn things around. The question became what could be tried to deal with what was left. And oh yeah, heard enough of “what are you (council) doing wrong”. More I learned the more I realized what was going on with city churches could be applied to what is going on in drum corps. Costs up and money supply is big worry, interest is down and people have other options (for churches it’s suburban churches, for DC there’s MB and other activities). Unless there is a way to turn the clock back with society there are going to be casualties with the changes.

IMO the first step is to determine WHY there are problems… and go from there. I have no idea what either group might or might not be doing. Having been there I have a sore spot with “there’s a problem, they should DO something”. Personally I agree with my dad and just ###### surprised that we even have an activity 

As for churches and veterans organizations had proven methods of creating corps. True… but the world where they were able to create new corps has been gone for decades. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, WilsonStaff said:

Original reply with "and thats the bottom line" youtube clip should have been a hint. In that quoted post you used "the bottom line is" a couple of times and it was funny. YLofHMV

 

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Sorry, but that is not accurate.  Nobody in the history of drum corps had an operating model using both member corps and non-member corps to create systemic haves/have-nots until DCA and DCI came along.  

so how was it some corps went to nationals every year, and some only went some years, and some never went at all?

 

sorry but history proves me right.

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Thanks just wanted to get the point across that Class A or corps that are not in the top DO get paid. And if the problem is DCA treatment of non-top corps, then why have lot of top corps folded….. 

DCA i believe is top 10 highest scoring now regardless of class since more than a few times A class corps outscored some open class finalists.

 

but when you go to a #### hole stadium and cant even sell 2500 tickets, i am not sure how much you're making

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

I underlined one word of your post above, so as to point out that I do not see anyone saying or implying that this is the only unresolved problem DCA faces.

It is a big one, though.  Are they down to 13 corps again now?

14 in 2019 that came to finals. i dont remember if other corps were out there.

 

DCA has its own issues, and the biggest one for out of the NE region corps is when finals is held. with membership ever younger, finals on Labor Day means kids missing school related activities. And since finals never moves,  and to be honest, the outer regions have yet to prove they can draw enough bodies to make up for the NE region folks that won't travel it's a never ending cycle. the great Wake Forest experiment drew tops 3000 people to a 60+ seat stadium...crowd looked tiny. promoter never tried again, and having been there, organizationally the show was a cluster. 

[JimF-LowBari]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

DCA i believe is top 10 highest scoring now regardless of class since more than a few times A class corps outscored some open class finalists.

 

but when you go to a #### hole stadium and cant even sell 2500 tickets, i am not sure how much you're making

Annnnd that’s the other problem with expecting DCI and especially DCA to do “something” with individual corps issues. The circuits pockets might not be that deep to afford to do much. And money spent there is money not going to the corps.

Hell 😈 the studies my previous church did on its problems were basically funded or led by synod. We couldn’t afford to pay for much.

[cixelsyd]

7 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Sorry, but that is not accurate.  Nobody in the history of drum corps had an operating model using both member corps and non-member corps to create systemic haves/have-nots until DCA and DCI came along.  

 

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

so how was it some corps went to nationals every year, and some only went some years, and some never went at all?

sorry but history proves me right.

That only proves that we are talking past each other.

Everyone who went to VFW/AL Nationals back in the day was in the same boat.  There were no special pay rates for member corps only.

Edited June 10, 2021 by cixelsyd