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Props an unnecessary necessity or


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2 hours ago, Fran Haring said:

So... to sum up this thread:

Props... ya can't live with 'em, and ya can't live without 'em. 

And props are bad, unless they are good or good, unless they are bad. 

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5 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

As predicted... 

I would love to let the corps decide.  But that would mean ALL the corps.  Instead, for 50 years, a small subset of the very richest corps have been making those decisions.

You are misunderstanding what I said...Corps should make these decisions for themselves, ( which we agree ) what is wanted, needed or their own budgets. 

With that said, as I said , supporters can change that...and support means get out of the lot and into shows.  No butts in seats doesn't exactly show interest. Saying things on line or support without action doesn't exactly carry a lot of weight. I also believe Jeff may have mentioned. OC corps were and are well aware and many supported decisions.

Oh and not much to predict as you said, unless you wanted to make statements and not want a rebuttal, which is ok by me. Often I won't debate several things or don't require debate.

So we may be more on the same page than you think.🙂

 

Edited by GUARDLING
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10 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

That is not accurate either... but I share your frustration that they did not do more back when the opportunities were there.

But here we are now.  Watch how even the small suggestion of temporarily suspending prop usage while we address existential crises of health/safety, budgets, venues, etc., gets shouted down.  That is just a little taste of what they were up against.

DCI was formed abut two things: money and creative control, and as we know in any form of life, don't always work together in logical ways.

 

quick, tell me a rule DCI rolled back in just shy of 50 years?

 

One...vocals on the field back in the 70's. Granted they weren't amplified but still.

 

Monster props are the new phase. remember props got big for a while in the 80's, the fazed out. But now as the designers consider themselves theater majors, they get more elaborate.

 

Honestly....i don't see a change until someone gets seriously hurt.

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7 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

I have said it literally dozens of times so here we go again. "IF " we want OC or the younger smaller corps to get the attention they deserve..I will repeat deserve, then people need to support  OC and smaller corps. Stay out of the lots when smaller corps are on, support OC only shows, etc etc. 

I have done these tours for decades now and it's sad sometimes watching these corps perform to not a soul. Do a few shows attract some people , sure for the most part no. Ask an OC performer. WGI went through this with HS and Independent A class UNTIL WGI realized between entry fees, dues, etc etc and the amount of participants in A class that is where their bread is buttered. People who complain how OC and smaller corps don't get the respect they deserve, and they should, well stop talking about it and get butts in those seats, IT WORKS, until then ,nothing changes.

As far as Props , no props etc etc, how about let corps decide what they want, can afford, need to do. Props should not be a reason for success nor lack of them. Same goes for most all aspects . If you choose to do something , do it well, if you choose not to do something, do it well, if you choose to explore something new, do it well, if you choose to revive something just do it well period. There's been plenty done well and plenty that has not, THAT, is the only thing that should be considered for success. Success is also another thing corps should decide and only them and that doesn't always mean scores.

I love OC corps. however no shows are within 2/3 hours drive on days that are good for me or my family to go to. Usually speaking the closest OC show is 4 hours away in a place where more elk live than humans. of ALL of the championship shows I have attended, D2/3 finals in 02 ranks in the top 5. Camp Randall had more energy on Wednesday than Saturday

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5 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

I love OC corps. however no shows are within 2/3 hours drive on days that are good for me or my family to go to. Usually speaking the closest OC show is 4 hours away in a place where more elk live than humans. of ALL of the championship shows I have attended, D2/3 finals in 02 ranks in the top 5. Camp Randall had more energy on Wednesday than Saturday

I agree that is also a problem BUT I have done these tours a long time. All one has to do is ask an OC corps who they perform to OR the smaller corps early on in a show. The culture of the viewer has to change before anything else does. This is nothing new, what did people call corps who weren't the top Hot dog corps? Now the lot gets more attention than some corps, Sad

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19 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

DCI was formed abut two things: money and creative control, and as we know in any form of life, don't always work together in logical ways.

 

quick, tell me a rule DCI rolled back in just shy of 50 years?

 

One...vocals on the field back in the 70's. Granted they weren't amplified but still.

 

Monster props are the new phase. remember props got big for a while in the 80's, the fazed out. But now as the designers consider themselves theater majors, they get more elaborate.

 

Honestly....i don't see a change until someone gets seriously hurt.

Same can be said of fast paced drill, How many were hurt with that..many, yet people love it, want it , want more. Props and change will go back and forth for sure, change will evolve, even the revisited, theme, music and design my come back in an updated form 

Youre right about the formation of DCI, To make decisions for themselves at a time when the world was changing and leaving behind the constraints of the past, One can look at that as the good or bad of it, as many did. BITD and obviously still today, for some.

Edited by GUARDLING
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6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

DCI was formed abut two things: money and creative control, and as we know in any form of life, don't always work together in logical ways.

 

quick, tell me a rule DCI rolled back in just shy of 50 years?

 

One...vocals on the field back in the 70's. Granted they weren't amplified but still.

 

Monster props are the new phase. remember props got big for a while in the 80's, the fazed out. But now as the designers consider themselves theater majors, they get more elaborate.

 

Honestly....i don't see a change until someone gets seriously hurt.

I made a similar observation regarding the increased possibility of injury 2 years ago..With props being moved by non union theatre workers, particularly outdoors, it's almost inevitable that the more elaborate the prop, the higher probability that someone will be injured..But we care about the kids..RIGHT?

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8 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

I agree that is also a problem BUT I have done these tours a long time. All one has to do is ask an OC corps who they perform to OR the smaller corps early on in a show. The culture of the viewer has to change before anything else does. This is nothing new, what did people call corps who weren't the top Hot dog corps? Now the lot gets more attention than some corps, Sad

Are there more or less hot dog corps now? 

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