Tim K Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 On 12/5/2021 at 6:09 PM, njthundrrd said: Jeff, the problem with that for about 10 years now, is do you want work your ### off all day long or go to a corps like Crown, BD, SCV, Bluecoats, Boston and not the rigors of the other drum corps? I saw this up close over the past 15 years. I’m not sure I agree that potential Cadets went to other corps, particularly Crown, BAC, or Bloo for more competitive success but less rigor, at least not those who wanted to be a Cadet. Of the corps you mention, I have never seen BD or SCV rehearse, but I have seen the others and to me, they worked as hard but the atmosphere felt different. I was often uncomfortable watching the full ensemble rehearsals of Cadets. It’s not that I don’t believe in tough critiques and I am not a participation trophy kind of person. Interestingly, I rarely heard the kids themselves complain or speak against the corps about these things. There were food complaints, but those conversations took place in fast food joints and no one marches drum corps for gourmet delights. What I did see decrease over the years is the intangible “what it means to be a Cadet.” Young people I knew who marched with Cadets, along with some I talked with who wanted to be in drum corps, wanted to be a Cadet first. Even Boston Crusaders which stresses tradition so much did not have that same attraction, or at least not in the same way. I saw that decrease about 2015 or 2016. There are all sorts of reasons why this happened. Crazy show ideas, less innovation, staff departures the situation involving the former director, the challenges of rebuilding have all played a part. I’m not sure how you get that back though there are some involved with the corps who could manage it, but it will take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Tim K said: I’m not sure I agree that potential Cadets went to other corps, particularly Crown, BAC, or Bloo for more competitive success but less rigor, at least not those who wanted to be a Cadet. Of the corps you mention, I have never seen BD or SCV rehearse, but I have seen the others and to me, they worked as hard but the atmosphere felt different. I was often uncomfortable watching the full ensemble rehearsals of Cadets. It’s not that I don’t believe in tough critiques and I am not a participation trophy kind of person. Interestingly, I rarely heard the kids themselves complain or speak against the corps about these things. There were food complaints, but those conversations took place in fast food joints and no one marches drum corps for gourmet delights. What I did see decrease over the years is the intangible “what it means to be a Cadet.” Young people I knew who marched with Cadets, along with some I talked with who wanted to be in drum corps, wanted to be a Cadet first. Even Boston Crusaders which stresses tradition so much did not have that same attraction, or at least not in the same way. I saw that decrease about 2015 or 2016. There are all sorts of reasons why this happened. Crazy show ideas, less innovation, staff departures the situation involving the former director, the challenges of rebuilding have all played a part. I’m not sure how you get that back though there are some involved with the corps who could manage it, but it will take time. My time marching in Cadets in 99 was sort of like this. 2000 changed for the better though. Nowadays, I'm not that connected to know exactly what it's like today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, 2000Cadet said: My time marching in Cadets in 99 was sort of like this. 2000 changed for the better though. Nowadays, I'm not that connected to know exactly what it's like today. Seems like for over 20 years there has been about a 50/50 chance of having a good year, or a really bad year with an embarassing show. Lack of consistency in member experience. Why not go to BD if you can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 5 hours ago, FTNK said: Seems like for over 20 years there has been about a 50/50 chance of having a good year, or a really bad year with an embarassing show. Lack of consistency in member experience. Why not go to BD if you can? You're absolutely right about that. The Cadets of the 90s were exactly why I wanted to march there. Nowadays, I'm not sure who can say why they'd want to march Cadets basing it on the last 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 6 hours ago, 2000Cadet said: You're absolutely right about that. The Cadets of the 90s were exactly why I wanted to march there. Nowadays, I'm not sure who can say why they'd want to march Cadets basing it on the last 20 years. well and there's more competition now. Crown was the bottom half of finals most years, same for Bloo. Boston didnt even make finals til 99. Boom thats three players, in most cases at most 7 hours or so from Allentown now that weren't contenders. kids now don't get off on the legends of what Cadets could be like back then, and in many cases, it seems that legend still occurred right up til the admin change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njthundrrd Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: well and there's more competition now. Crown was the bottom half of finals most years, same for Bloo. Boston didnt even make finals til 99. Boom thats three players, in most cases at most 7 hours or so from Allentown now that weren't contenders. kids now don't get off on the legends of what Cadets could be like back then, and in many cases, it seems that legend still occurred right up til the admin change. To the fans there are decades of history with these corps. For the potential members (high school and college kids), it is about a 4 year cycle. If you don't do well in those 4 years, you have to consider what tweaks you need to make to your brand. Fans buy tickets, kids march spots ... and the show is the product and the group is the brand. But hey? What do I know? LOL Edited December 10, 2021 by njthundrrd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommeee Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 On 12/8/2021 at 2:39 PM, FTNK said: I think Cadets are a spent force in terms of competing at the top of DCI. I think they are at the point where they can either design good shows for the bottom half of finals, or do "tradition" and be like the Troopers were 15 years ago. I'm kinda confused on the point that Cadets are a "spent force", considering staff and members are not frozen in time. They have already had quite a few new people coming in, eager to prove themselves, so there's plenty of opportunity to innovate and surge forward. Also, the idea that it's bad to be in the "bottom half of finals" is a very outdated idea, considering the quality of those corps now. As an example, look at Cadets percussion, and try to tell me they are "bottom 6". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guard2004 Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 I'd like to add to this as a newly contracted Cadet in the color guard. I'm a senior in HS and have been into DCI since my junior year. I'll be honest, Crown was my first choice. A jam packed academic schedule with my own orgaizations marching arts made it so I couldn't put anywhere near enough time as I should have into the required video auditions (they determine who comes to the Dec camp. A process I'm not fond of but I digress). When I wasn't offered a contract I was torn between joining my friend (auditioning for Bloo), going with where one of my techs wanted me to audition (Boston), Cadets, and SCV. I was really only a fan of Cadets shows (minus 2019) and SCV shows (2017-2019). I ended up at Cadets for the Nov audition in Salem, NJ and I can say wholeheartedly that there is a MAJOR sense of "let's make Cadets really good again" at least in finals. I'm really only super involved in the guard but I'm guessing my experience carries over into the other sections. When I looked at Crown I wanted the abstract show concepts that were done well and a really good work ethic/environment for all the students. Cadets has that and after hearing some info about Crown being somewhat cutthroat (most notably in brass and in some cases, guard) I'm already questioning if I'd audition next year. What I'm trying to say is that Cadets is in a really good positon to move up. Their new director is the old Boston assistant director, most of the guard staff is alumni, admins were REALLY knowledgeable and super friendly. People are talking about their 2021 success and my guess is they're aiming for top 6 or 7 (this is my guess so take it LIGHTLY). Yeah they probably won't be getting the Zingali, Ott, or any of the other caption awards, but the general mindset seems to be putting Cadets back on the map as a force to recon with but still maintaing a sort of wildcard position they've always seem to have. You know they'll be fantastic regardless 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Ready for some emotion: 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 On 12/9/2021 at 12:05 PM, FTNK said: Seems like for over 20 years there has been about a 50/50 chance of having a good year, or a really bad year with an embarassing show. Lack of consistency in member experience. Why not go to BD if you can? true story. i know someone that marched Cadets in 99, didn't like it and went to BD in 2000. so he left a 4th/5th place to corps to go to a 3rd/4th place corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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