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The end of scores?


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56 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I didn’t say anything about no scores. 

I know.  I was actually just trying to tie this very valid comment back to the topic.  In my opinion, there can be no greater feeling for a corps member than to be a part of that first group to make semis or finals for a corps.  Those who really stick it out to help their corps take that leap into the next level.  And for that, scores are necessary.  

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1 hour ago, Mello Dude said:

Meh, some fear change just because.  Others resist change if its stupid; self defeating or dumb.  Like eliminating local tours, that ticked all three boxes.

 

now thats a subjective statement..lol😉 but youre right about some fearing change " just because "

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17 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

...but the judges and score for "things"....   This is why there is an arms race for props.  Hell, even some on these very forums think they are absolutely needed for effect.  This is why "innovation" isn't as much as is just add more stuff and add a vehicle (semi truck) to drag it around for "score".  I am more amazed we still have the "front ensemble: aka pit in the front still.  All that room in the back especially with amplification.  The ease of setting up with a met for rehearsal.  Generators can be further away.  Better cohesion and sound like all orchestras do.

just having props have earned zero championships. having props and using them well have. Would Bloo 16 or SCV 18 been anywhere near as cool without the props? Hell no! but the scoreboard is littered with corps that had props that didn't work and as a result ended their season on Friday...and sometimes Thursday

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16 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

 

To me, the corps,i.e. DCI ,don't have a problem with the arms race, when it comes to props. 

If they did, it would be simple enough to address, by changing the rules.

As stated above, this year the corps produced shows geared for the entertainment of the audience.

There have been a number of posts over the years about certain corps' shows being designed "for the sheets".

In many cases, this produces a show that scores well, but only judges and music majors appreciate.

To survive, DCI needs to have shows that are engaging enough to "put seats in the seats".

From my experience, drum corps audiences are getting older, except for MM families and high school band members who get bussed in.

That's not a sustainable model, in the long term.

 

 

 

 

that model, frustrating as it can be has helped DCi go from just over 10k at finals in 2010 to 22k the last several competitive seasons. and thats just finals. you can't say shows have been less engaging the last few years with a straight face...the last few years have been some of the most entertaining stuff down into the semifinalists as I have seen since 92.

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5 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

that model, frustrating as it can be has helped DCi go from just over 10k at finals in 2010 to 22k the last several competitive seasons. and thats just finals. you can't say shows have been less engaging the last few years with a straight face...the last few years have been some of the most entertaining stuff down into the semifinalists as I have seen since 92.

I don't think you can attribute the increase in attendance at finals to things like props.

DCI has expanded the events during Finals Week to include things like SoundSport and Drumline Battle.

That brings more people to Indy.

As far as shows being  "engaging", guess that depends on the definition of "engaging.

Some shows were.

Many, like Crown's teeter totter ,weren't.

This year's shows were just as "engaging" without massive props.

In fact, the corps with the most elaborate props got some criticism for them  being distracting.

So, yes I can say, with a "straight face" not all shows the last few years have been close to "engaging".

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

that model, frustrating as it can be has helped DCi go from just over 10k at finals in 2010 to 22k the last several competitive seasons. and thats just finals. you can't say shows have been less engaging the last few years with a straight face...the last few years have been some of the most entertaining stuff down into the semifinalists as I have seen since 92.

Does that number include Flo?

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9 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

just having props have earned zero championships. having props and using them well have. Would Bloo 16 or SCV 18 been anywhere near as cool without the props? Hell no! but the scoreboard is littered with corps that had props that didn't work and as a result ended their season on Friday...and sometimes Thursday

Sure...in your opinion.  I can't compete with your 100k+ post count but the prop arms race isn't just fantasy earning "score".  Who knows if it wouldn't have been as "cool" with new drill and marching.  Feeling you need to have props to win and being reinforced by "score" are some pretty damning evidence there.  Getting points for standing and playing on a ramp VS  a group marching and playing as hard of a lick seems pointless because someone with "props" will outscore you for something FAR easier to clean and FAR less demand.  I GET why the props are there besides the "cool" factor.  The "score" factor always trumps the "cool" or "hard" factor.

Edited by Mello Dude
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17 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

I don't think you can attribute the increase in attendance at finals to things like props.

DCI has expanded the events during Finals Week to include things like SoundSport and Drumline Battle.

That brings more people to Indy.

As far as shows being  "engaging", guess that depends on the definition of "engaging.

Some shows were.

Many, like Crown's teeter totter ,weren't.

This year's shows were just as "engaging" without massive props.

In fact, the corps with the most elaborate props got some criticism for them  being distracting.

So, yes I can say, with a "straight face" not all shows the last few years have been close to "engaging".

 

 

 

 

i never said props led to attendance. i said intriguing shows and competition did. sometimes props are involved in both.

the old guys in the 70's complained they weren't coming off the line anymore.

the old guys in the 80's couldn't handle dance and some of the music

the old guys in the 90's hated a lot of the music and the body

the old guys in the 2000's hated everything

now the old guys in the 10's into the early 20's hate props.

but attendance is back up at finals and doing well at the regionals pre-pandemic. Flo draws eyeballs despite their #### product. Something is obviously working.

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14 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

Does that number include Flo?

nope. i am talking actual ##### in the seats, or as good ole JR says "an ### every 18 inches ( unless Allentown, then it's every 9)

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