Mello Dude Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Boss Anova said: I would agree that the tick system left a lot to be desired . Judging Drum Corps shows today however is still FAR more challenging and subjective today under today’s system as the instruments utilized in competition are far more numerous and diverse than BITD . The sound is altered significantly now between corps in competition by different instruments usage . The Corps use engineering to alter that sound from the field to the judges box up top too . So judging remains a highly challenging and subjective endeavor , perhaps more so now than ever before , despite the change in the judging system now utilized Well perhaps we need to move GE out of the judges hands and have the audience vote. With all the smart phones out there now I don't see this as an issue as long as Flo isn't programming it. 😛 Better to be subjective to the mob than just a few in the case of GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mello Dude said: Well perhaps we need to move GE out of the judges hands and have the audience vote. With all the smart phones out there now I don't see this as an issue as long as Flo isn't programming it. 😛 Better to be subjective to the mob than just a few in the case of GE. I think this is an interesting proposal in the spirit of brainstorming and thinking about it might lead to something better, but by itself it would end up scoring a whole lot of things other than the quality of performance. Like popularity based on past performance, population of the area the corps is from, existence of other corps from the same area, varying quality of the broadcast from corps to corps, technology savvy of the fan base, varied investment in “getting out the vote”, size of the corps (and hence number of parents), inconsistency in understanding and application of the criteria, and so forth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 5 hours ago, MikeD said: Ticks were just as subjective. Was the moment being evaluated worthy of a tick or not? The judge had to decide. In the case of a group tick situation, how bad was it? How many ticks should be assessed? Further, the judge had to be directly in front of the moment being evaluated to mark a tick. If the judge stood in front of the snares, for instance, and thought a bass phrase may have been dirty, the judge was not deemed to be in position to assess a bass tick. Recording ticks let to watered down shows as the season progressed, to eliminate every possible error, esp in percussion. I recall one hall of fame drum instructor who used to have a lot of cymbal crashes at the ends of battery phrases to cover up potential battery errors. There were lots of games back then, for sure. Brass charts were more vertically aligned, as opposed to independent horizontally aligned independent voices to make sure judges did not hit the line incorrectly for attack and release errors. I really can't imagine todays shows, as complex as they are, being able to be judged using any sort of tick system. That system went away because it was just not a sufficient way to truly evaluate the corps performances. Some elements of the "Tic" system should return in my opinion as it puts the emphasis on music and marching. I disagree the tic system caused shows to be watered down as the season progressed, it caused them to be cleaner. I understand the choreography jeannie has long left the bottle but I think you can have both. No corps under the tic system won DCI that should not have and there was innovation and creativity back then too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said: Some elements of the "Tic" system should return in my opinion as it puts the emphasis on music and marching. I disagree the tic system caused shows to be watered down as the season progressed, it caused them to be cleaner. I understand the choreography jeannie has long left the bottle but I think you can have both. No corps under the tic system won DCI that should not have and there was innovation and creativity back then too. The problem was consistency in judging as well as accountability and it was as subjective even more so than today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 1 hour ago, skevinp said: I think this is an interesting proposal in the spirit of brainstorming and thinking about it might lead to something better, but by itself it would end up scoring a whole lot of things other than the quality of performance. Like popularity based on past performance, population of the area the corps is from, existence of other corps from the same area, varying quality of the broadcast from corps to corps, technology savvy of the fan base, varied investment in “getting out the vote”, size of the corps (and hence number of parents), inconsistency in understanding and application of the criteria, and so forth. Well, I wasn't thinking of Flo viewers voting. Frankly, tickets could have a code that allows for one vote for someone at the show. Getting more people to come out and see drum corps can only be a win. Tech savvy in 2021 should not be an issue. Besides, even old people can learn too. No one is saying you have to vote either. If you want to, be bothered to learn OR have a booth setup for people without phones and can help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said: Some elements of the "Tic" system should return in my opinion as it puts the emphasis on music and marching. I disagree the tic system caused shows to be watered down as the season progressed, it caused them to be cleaner. I understand the choreography jeannie has long left the bottle but I think you can have both. No corps under the tic system won DCI that should not have and there was innovation and creativity back then too. Interesting that there are adjudicators who can determine a spread by tenths or less, but can’t explain the difference or what is required to fix it to close the spread Frankly I’m not convinced the majority of adjudicators know what clean is. From a marching standpoint fluttering, ring around the rosie, and strike a pose forms is more dirty than actual marching, yet somehow it gets rewarded above marching drill forms in unison. Edited August 18, 2021 by Poppycock 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: The problem was consistency in judging as well as accountability and it was as subjective even more so than today. I completely disagree. I think is so biased today as to render most scoring just a joke anymore. Corps get credit for things they aren't doing because of just their name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Just now, Poppycock said: Interesting that there are adjudicators who can determine a spread by tenths or less, but can’t explain the difference or what is required to fix it. Frankly I’m not convinced the majority of adjudicators know what clean is. From a marching standpoint fluttering, ring around the rosie, and strike a pose forms is more dirty than actual marching, yet somehow it gets rewarded above marching drill forms in unison. This...and they don't have to explain themselves anymore at "critique". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 9 hours ago, Kopeck said: I enjoy concerts too but DCI is synonym with judges and scores. And I think competition drives kids to be their best. Having marched Phantom Regiment during the 1985 and 1986 seasons, there can be a lot of frustration with things the judges say but it did not make my time any less enjoyable because of the opinion of any one judge. I think people who marched 35 years ago have no clue what members want from this “music education experience” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 9 hours ago, skevinp said: Well, if they don’t place as well as they had hoped, does that mean they see their 5k and hard work as a waste of money and time? I suspect most do not. But the staff will definitely make them think that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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