Paraphrased Thoughts on "Judging" from a newly minted 5-year Age Out

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Some elements of the "Tic" system should return in my opinion as it puts the emphasis on music and marching.  I disagree the tic system caused shows to be watered down as the season progressed, it caused them to be cleaner.  I understand the choreography jeannie has long left the bottle but I think you can have both.   

No corps under the tic system won DCI that should not have and there was innovation and creativity back then too. 

how did they get cleaner? 

 

"hey remember that part you USED to play there?"

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said:

There will always be inconsistency in judging when humans are involved.  One plate umpires strike is another's ball.  One line judges completion is a back judge's incomplete pass.  My point is the tic system worked in that it placed corps in their correct order of finish and allowed for innovation at the same time.  

Not saying to turn the clock back to 1970-something but the tic system worked and .doesn't deserve the criticism I read here from fellow dinos. 

 

no the tic system didn't. the same corps were often at the top just because.

[Jeff Ream]

7 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

It can be done WGI does this for a fan favorite BUT it doesn't have anything to do with scoring. Mostly its what staff people can do to muster up friends, family, etc etc to text in.

spot on. I will not deny in 2012 texting, facebooking etc to get votes for my team in WGI. So did the rest of the staff, the parents, the band director who wasn't even there...and it worked.

 

and we were 2nd.

[skevinp]

3 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

Well, I wasn't thinking of Flo viewers voting.  Frankly, tickets could have a code that allows for one vote for someone at the show.

Oh, well in that case, add location bias and the effect of travel distance on fan representation to the long list of problems.

[Mello Dude]

9 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

how did they get cleaner? 

 

"hey remember that part you USED to play there?"

Didn't there used to be a hybrid system around 84 that was build up and tear down?  Seems like there could be a mix that would work.

[Boss Anova]

15 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

Well perhaps we need to move GE out of the judges hands and have the audience vote.  With all the smart phones out there now I don't see this as an issue as long as Flo isn't programming it. 😛  Better to be subjective to the mob than just a few in the case of GE.

 

Jersey Surf placed 20th with the Judges in 2012 but likely would have easily placed in the Top 6 in DCI with their “ Bridgemania” tribute show to the 1970’s Bridgemen Corps . Paciific Crest would have topped  Cavaliers , Boston ,Bluecoats ,  Blue Stars etc this season as they finished ahead of these Corps in this past week’s fan poll conducted by Flo Marching .  Music City in 2018 would have topped Blue Devils, SCV , Crown , Bluecoats , Boston,  Cadets , Phantom Regiment , Cavaliers , Blue Knights , Madison Scouts with their tribute show to train conductor Casey Jones as national fan poll conducted by Flo Marching had them winning with the fans . I suppose this could be arranged . I’m just not so sure that this will give rise to excellence in performance being rewarded , but it’s certainly gathering support here and on other social media that “ the fans “ judge these corps in competition ..

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Boss Anova

[Boss Anova]

I am struck that some fans want to give fans like me the vote to decide placements and who is “ the best “ on the field of the corps in shows . I never played a drum .As such ,  I can barely tell the difference between a paradiddle and a parakeet . A 3rd place battery section in a drum line  and a 16th place battery  frankly sound pretty much the same to me . I can’t distinguish between Front Ensembles who is better than others either  . They likewise all sound the same to my inexperienced and untrained ears . As for Guard , except for Boston , I can’t tell from top to bottom what the placements should be . Not really . The only rifle I carried in my life was loaded , and I never tossed it either . 
   So I suppose if fans want to give fans like me that know so little about performance excellence ( and demand ) the ability to judge marching units with percussion and guard  , I suppose I am willing to volunteer to replace free of charge the trained and the experienced judges . I would be willing to judge percussion and guard and performance excellence levels , and so forth if that’s what people crave .  Why not ? But if you don’t like my future judgement that Jersey Surf or Pacific Crest or Madison Scouts or Music City  is the best out there on the field , don’t blame me , as that’s what you asked fans like me to do . 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Boss Anova

[KVG_DC]

There's gonna be scores.  There's gonna be those who value them more than others.  

When I marched HS band in the upper reaches of the ISSMA circuit in the 80s it was a bitter pill to place no higher than 4th at the finals when we felt we were surely doing things that merited at least 3rd if not 2nd.  

But that faded pretty quick because we had a fantastic show that people enjoyed and had parents from those bands coming up to us at the busses saying "we LOVED what you did with..." 

It helped me realized that some of the bitterness was less where we placed and more that "my marching days have come to an abrupt end."  (doing drum corps wasn't in my future due to time, financial, and skill set issues.) 

So yeah. I think this is what i'm hearing from this paraphrase as well.  The competition is part of it, but the weight given to ultimate scoring and placement pales in comparison to enjoying what you're doing and feeling proud about it.  It's that rival corps MM who caught your show sound from the tunnel who reached out on Insta to say they loved it.  It's that judge tape that was basically a love letter to the work your bass drum line was doing. It's seeing the WHOLE crowd get worked up when you make an emotional hit in your show.  Those are the things that linger (and shoud) not "what number got attached at the end of the day." 

So when designs get chagned to chase a number rather than the "things that should linger" I can't help but see where the "pagentry leeches" are driving this more than the members' or fans.   This is the 'read' of what i see in the paraphrase.  And..i'll readily admit, that paraphrase is defintely an age out retrospective on "what I want to carry from this" rather than an MM in the heat of their prime years of marching thinking about "what do i want next year?"  That too impacts the desires.

[Triple Forte]

22 hours ago, Kopeck said:

I enjoy concerts too but DCI is synonym with judges and scores. And I think competition drives kids to be their best. Having marched Phantom Regiment during the 1985 and 1986 seasons, there can be a lot of frustration with things the judges say but it did not make my time any less enjoyable because of the opinion of any one judge.

Yeah but staff members and leadership  of corps say all the time it has nothing to do with scores or placement it has to do with excellence and being the best you can be.... 👀 

 

[troopers1]

10 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

shows were always written to check certain boxes on the sheets

Yes.  But the way the sheets exist, or the mathematical/analytical approach we now take to meeting their requirements, result in a technically impressive, generally unapproachable and very clinical experience.  More importantly it causes corps make questionable financial decisions, since meeting the formula is in a sliding scale for overall value per dollar.