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Paraphrased Thoughts on "Judging" from a newly minted 5-year Age Out


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On 8/18/2021 at 7:44 PM, greg_orangecounty said:

By practicing.  In our case 12-hour days and having Bobby Hoffman screaming in your ear helped too.

Hmmm....in my Garfield years, 70-72, I could have said the exact same thing! Bobby was our visual person too!  

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8 minutes ago, MikeD said:

Hmmm....in my Garfield years, 70-72, I could have said the exact same thing! Bobby was our visual person too!  

We stayed in Garfield one year, 72 I think.  They townspeople were soooo nice to us!  We did a run through for them out of appreciation.  I've liked Holy Name/Garfield ever since. 

What a talent Bobby Hoffman was!

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35 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

We stayed in Garfield one year, 72 I think.  They townspeople were soooo nice to us!  We did a run through for them out of appreciation.  I've liked Holy Name/Garfield ever since. 

What a talent Bobby Hoffman was!

Yes, he was amazing. I recall that visit. 72 was my final marching year.

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8 hours ago, BigW said:

Also, when one listens to brass sections from the tick era, I can't help but notice the 'blockiness' of the performance/stilted phrasing/chopped off at the root releases/compromised musicality... why? To avoid ticks. and any questions or doubts about cleanliness. And yeah, I was in DCA when this was how it was done.

You didn't hear Young Peoples Guide, Symphonie Fantastique, Candide, Slaughter on 10th, Mambo, Channel 1, Pegasus?  (I could go on...)  I never progressed beyond 3rd baritone, so your musical knowledge no doubt exceeds mine - but you heard a different Drum Corps than I did.  

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5 hours ago, ykw said:

I don't where Drum Corps would be today without the widespread adaptation of an innovation that I so lovingly refer to as "PARK-N-BLOW SQUAT POSING" (PNBSP) -- gotta be sure to check that box (body movement) for the judges!!

Well, we moved when we were static to the point that one of our visual staff (Who last I knew was judging DCI fairly recently) asked us if we were acting in a Seka film. I think our response was... "YES!". I think he tried very hard not to laugh. Nuff said. 😋

Dunno how much credit to assess in terms of physical challenge. Lots for Effect.

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11 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

You didn't hear Young Peoples Guide, Symphonie Fantastique, Candide, Slaughter on 10th, Mambo, Channel 1, Pegasus?  (I could go on...)  I never progressed beyond 3rd baritone, so your musical knowledge no doubt exceeds mine - but you heard a different Drum Corps than I did.  

They were somewhat blocky. Two of these period charts, I've listened to fairly recently. Don't forget the Mahler from the Optimists, which I also listed to. For its day, very innovative and groundbreaking, especially on the visual side... I played a piston-rotor horn for 4 of my six seasons... I know the game in period. I listen to a lot of the period things and realize listening now that they were quite good for the period, but could have been so far more musical but were hedged and constricted because the style demanded cleanliness and clear cleanliness first, musicality second. By 1979, BD, Phantom, others, were trying hard to knock on the door. But they still had certain things held under restraint of the system.


As for Channel One... Directly compare 1976 to 1986. One major difference is clear, the far, far better two valve Kings over whatever piston-rotors BD played on then. Then listen to the dynamics, timbre... the stylistic interpretation of the chart. All noticeably better within that 10 year span. Look at the visual package (though I do have some picky things there that because BD could blow white heat, they could get away with), the more musical and less military guard work. It's absolutely no coincidence things got that radically improved in that 10 year span being coincident with the change in how things were judged. It's no knock on the '76 corps. They were clearly what it took to win and be the champions at that time. Ground started to be broken. Things started inching towards a point where ticks weren't as accurate a reflection of the realities and where the arrangers and designers wanted to take things to.

 

Two things allowed George Zingali to turn himself loose. He discussed this at length in a 1984 clinic I was lucky to attend.

 

One: The Cadets gave him total artistic freedom to take things in the direction he wanted. That was not the case previously. If folks want to argue that... That's what I heard, that's what he said. Sorry if that steps on any toes. I'd deliver sworn testimony on it.

Two: The changes in evaluation also gave him the opportunity to take things in the direction he really wanted to go. It began to become worth it to take certain risks because they could be recognized and credited. You could afford to be less conservative.

 

I do like corps from all eras. There was a dynamite Baritone solo somewhere of Larry Scott playing the "Student Prince" online in the mid-50's. Considering he had to work around a G/D bugle, wow.

 

Listened to old Rockets, Sun, Cabs stuff from the 60's, I can go on. Early 70's Argonne recently.

 

The thing is, you have to look at it, respect it, and appreciate it for the era it was developed and created. It was that way for various reasons. The bugles weren't great to play on. They didn't have composite materials to construct percussion instruments from. The best were the best given all of those issues and how they dealt with them. 

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4 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

I recall how the tic system worked as I marched in the first three DCI finals and 2 years prior to that.  We would dissect our score sheets and gather around the tape recorder to listen to the GE Brass Judging tapes. 

The rise of those corps and their consistent placement had nothing to do with scoring systems, and everything to do with good management, parental support groups, and revenue streams. 

 

wrong. scoring systems mattered because A) corps write the sheets and B) these corps had staff that mastered them

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