Paraphrased Thoughts on "Judging" from a newly minted 5-year Age Out

[theonlyfizzle]

7 hours ago, PopcornEater1963 said:

"There's nothing wrong with judging and competition. But I was fine and would be fine in the future without it. Removing the "judging" aspect would make positive changes,  for members, staff, and administration. The staff wouldn't be up all night listening to tapes after every show painstakingly deciding on what to "pay attention to" and what to "let go" from judges in the quest for a "higher score". Judge's insights can certainly make a show better, but in the end, judges just have an opinion like everyone else on what is working and what it isn't. For members, undertaking rewrites of music, drill, etc. would be more accepted and palatable if everyone knew it was to make the show more engaging and not the possibility it was just in the name of a "higher score". For Administrations, it would allow them to focus on Instruction Staff whose primary focus is to EDUCATE members, inspire excellence, and let the chips fall where the chips fall. I can almost guarantee you that there are one or two key staffers inside each organization whose sole focus is on "winning". Winning is fun. Winning is good. But when "winning" becomes the focus of a staffer trying to boost their bonafides in the DCI ecosystem over teaching and inspiring, then we all missed something somewhere..." 

-My son, last night, after our flight home from Indy while watching the Rebroadcast on Flo-Marching. 

No...he didn't say it in THOSE words. But our conversation was in-depth enough that I can paraphrase it with mine. 

I think he's spot on the money. 

I don't have a lot to say than; yes it would be fun, it would be enjoyable in the best way possible, but it wouldn't be great! Greatness would be diminish in the name of exhibition. Judging is a big part of why the activity grow and get pushed through the decades, with innovation and creativity that we like and both hate.

[BigW]

1 hour ago, Triple Forte said:

What about concerts? no fun because it’s not competitive? 
I doubt drum corps is a closer relative to sports than musical groups 

Blast! Was predicated largely on that. It had its day, it was pretty fascinating... then well, it's gone.

[Mello Dude]

38 minutes ago, theonlyfizzle said:

I don't have a lot to say than; yes it would be fun, it would be enjoyable in the best way possible, but it wouldn't be great! Greatness would be diminish in the name of exhibition. Judging is a big part of why the activity grow and get pushed through the decades, with innovation and creativity that we like and both hate.

It would be great if we saw more innovation, creativity and music rather than WGI regurgitated on a football field.  The problem (again) is that judging is done through a VERY narrow lens right now on what provides "score".  XYZ did this so it must be good thus provide "score" rather than actually critiquing it in a neutral fashion.  I can see everyone rushing to get 150 inch screens now....if they are rewarded "score".  This year was a true treat.  I fear that we will go back to the same ole same ole.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Mello Dude

[greg_orangecounty]

8 hours ago, PopcornEater1963 said:

"There's nothing wrong with judging and competition. But I was fine and would be fine in the future without it. Removing the "judging" aspect would make positive changes,  for members, staff, and administration. The staff wouldn't be up all night listening to tapes after every show painstakingly deciding on what to "pay attention to" and what to "let go" from judges in the quest for a "higher score". Judge's insights can certainly make a show better, but in the end, judges just have an opinion like everyone else on what is working and what it isn't. For members, undertaking rewrites of music, drill, etc. would be more accepted and palatable if everyone knew it was to make the show more engaging and not the possibility it was just in the name of a "higher score". For Administrations, it would allow them to focus on Instruction Staff whose primary focus is to EDUCATE members, inspire excellence, and let the chips fall where the chips fall. I can almost guarantee you that there are one or two key staffers inside each organization whose sole focus is on "winning". Winning is fun. Winning is good. But when "winning" becomes the focus of a staffer trying to boost their bonafides in the DCI ecosystem over teaching and inspiring, then we all missed something somewhere..." 

-My son, last night, after our flight home from Indy while watching the Rebroadcast on Flo-Marching. 

No...he didn't say it in THOSE words. But our conversation was in-depth enough that I can paraphrase it with mine. 

I think he's spot on the money. 

 

Why are staff members focused on winning and staff members that educate, teach, and inspire mutually exclusive?  We had both and even though it was a long time ago competition still breeds excellence.  That has and will not change. 

[JimF-LowBari]

2 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

 

Why are staff members focused on winning and staff members that educate, teach, and inspire mutually exclusive?  We had both and even though it was a long time ago competition still breeds excellence.  That has and will not change. 

More than staff focused on winning… members go for the top corps also.  And if staff doesn’t have corps as high as corps BoD thinks then staff goes. And educate and teach gets left to the schools…

[cixelsyd]

2 hours ago, Triple Forte said:

What about concerts? no fun because it’s not competitive? 
I doubt drum corps is a closer relative to sports than musical groups 

Concerts are fine.  But concerts by DCI-level performers do not attract DCI-size audiences to pay DCI-level ticket prices.

[Jurassic Lancer]

Honestly, I would watch either way, as this past week proved. I watched five shows in six days. Attendance was down, but this year there were mitigating circumstances.  

[karuna]

ban props.

make designers use the MEMBERS to create musical and visual effect.

teaching staff, members, and fans will ALL be happier

[Tenoris4Jazz]

One of the biggest high schools in GA fields two bands: one competitive, and one for halftime shows.  DCI doesn't really have that option, do they?  So I guess it's choose one or the other, and follow the money.

[Jeff Ream]

3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Concerts are fine.  But concerts by DCI-level performers do not attract DCI-size audiences to pay DCI-level ticket prices.

agreed. like it or not, competition helps drive ##### in seats. after 2 dismal attendance years in 09 and 10, BD being seriously challenged drew butts in the seats. Same thing in 13 with Crown going for gold, and 15-19 with tight competition at the top...and not just in Indy. 18, barring a rainout, would have been Allentowns biggest attendance since the split to 2 nights. 19 as right up there, as was 16. Competition brings more eyes to Flo and the website, both of which gets ad revenue. 

 

And...fan engagement. People love a new champ or wildly tight race, and you can't deny the last few seasons had some wild rides with cores and places shifting right up to the end. And...that drove eyes to the product.

hell tight races bring more clicks here. 

We have slowly but surely seen the last few years more and more judges calling the show of the day and sticking to their sheet ( minus one judge all but guaranteed to deliver a 20 to BD finals week). We are seeing GE taking the full triad into account, and not living and dying with intellectual stimulation. Shows have been more engaging and not just technical exercises in how faux deep can the design team go. This year may help create more of a shift in that direction, and maybe reducing the reliance on excessive props ( Boston not included).

 

We just have to sit back and see what happens. talking to people in many judging associations and circuits, the time off has definitely caused folks to step back and take a look at the larger picture.