The FLO of sound

[Fred Windish]

Such as it is, I am pleased to receive programing from Flo Marching Arts channel. At this point of life, drum corps directly to my living room is best. You probably noticed, with advancing age comes a decrease in tolerance for things!

For now, I do remain patient with audio from Flo broadcasts. Why? 

Because Flo technical teams are being asked to produce a standardized, excellent quality aural representation of a ‘moving target’ that widely varies in speed, strength, and capability. Sometimes indoor, often outside. High end pro stuff, or Mattel? Difficult challenge, no doubt.

In addition, I suspect Flo technicians are largely inexperienced, underpaid, and as I have witnessed, not placed in position and set before a couple hours before showtime.

Our DCI corps need to consider standardizing more of the processes leading to a finished product, I think. A product more reliable to the task faced by Flo.  I’m not a musician, nor a sound engineer. But ask the following questions.

Would there be benefit to one, designated by DCI, standardized electronic set-up?  Same size, quality, and brand components? The ‘Official Sound Equipment provider for DCI,’  so to speak.

One, decibel-limited standard for all. Same size speaker arrays, mics, and sound boards? Same (as much as practical) everything related to electronic reproduction?  

Put another way, neutralize the challenge Flo technicians face wherever they set-up, whatever group is presenting? 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Fred Windish

[KVG_DC]

Not sure the sound creatives with the corps would fly for that.  If there's a "one official brand" sort of thing, the incentives to individual corps for "deals" on electronics may evaporate because the electronics makers would be thrown into a single high stakes bidding war with music engineers at the corps duking it out for their favorites when it comes to a 'vote' or whatever.    

Down the line, what happens when the 'big corps' win that contract at a price they can afford for the quality they want...and down the line, corps simply cannot afford what they need to do it.  Suddenly there's a divide between who can do what that reinforces a 'frozen ladder' sort of effect.   While "we can't do electronics all that much because we can't afford the brand that is required" might lead to some corps having less electronics.  You can bet the ones who CAN afford it and successfully pushed what they wanted as the 'official brand' will be scoring higher and locking up the top of the standings even harder.

I imagine it'd play about as well as requiring a single official brass manufacturer or a single official drum manufacturer.  

 

[waliman4444]

5 minutes ago, Fred Windish said:

Such as it is, I am pleased to receive programing from Flo Marching Arts channel. At this point of life, drum corps directly to my living room is best. You probably noticed, with advancing age comes a decrease in tolerance for things!

For now, I do remain patient with audio from Flo broadcasts. Why? 

Because Flo technical teams are being asked to produce a standardized, excellent quality aural representation of a ‘moving target’ that widely varies in speed, strength, and capability. Sometimes indoor, often outside. High end pro stuff, or Mattel? Difficult challenge, no doubt.

In addition, I suspect Flo technicians are largely inexperienced, underpaid, and as I have witnessed, not placed in position and set before a couple hours before showtime.

Our DCI corps need to consider standardizing more of the processes leading to a finished product, I think. A product more reliable to the task faced by Flo.  I’m not a musician, nor a sound engineer. But ask the following questions.

Would there be benefit to one, designated by DCI, standardized electronic set-up?  Same size, quality, and brand components? The ‘Official Sound Equipment provider for DCI,’  so to speak.

One, decibel-limited standard for all. Same size speaker arrays, mics, and sound boards? Same (as much as practical) everything related to electronic reproduction?  

Put another way, neutralize the challenge Flo technicians face wherever they set-up, whatever group is presenting? 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

I suggested this 2 years ago on here and was told by a host of DCPers that it was impractical because it would limit some of the more financially well off corps , from using more sophisticated electronics that might not work well with one designated system..unless FLO can come up with a multi user system that would interface qualitatively with all the corps' electronics, it might be a difficult task...btw, I too would like to see this standardized system.

[OldSnareDrummer]

1 hour ago, Fred Windish said:

 You probably noticed, with advancing age comes a decrease in tolerance for things!

 

 

 

 

Understatement of the year. 😄

Good points on Flo. 

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, Fred Windish said:

Would there be benefit to one, designated by DCI, standardized electronic set-up?  

Sure.  But it will not happen.  Like any other equipment the corps use, DCI benefits from the existence of multiple suppliers.  The more suppliers there are, the more "corporate partners" there are to prop up DCI and their corps with sponsorships and endorsement deals.

[Fred Windish]

An idea I had in mind involved just a couple of DCI-owned audio set-ups. A reasonable level of cost for the complete package, yet very capable of capturing and transmitting this kind of event to the audience. Have no idea what a single package cost would be, but thinking $20,000 is sufficient.

In other words, “THIS is the system that will be in place at the show site.”  Understand its abilities and limitations in designing your presentations. THIS system is what you will connect to when you arrive to perform.

Some of you will be willing and able to purchase/lease the same set-up for your exclusive use at home and on the road. Your choice. But, this is what your staff will work with at the venue.

Something needs to be done in terms of standardization, I believe.  It is not reasonable to expect Flo, or any other firm, to reliably work with our product unless we start removing the many variables currently in place.
 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Fred Windish

[cixelsyd]

33 minutes ago, Fred Windish said:

An idea I had in mind involved just a couple of DCI-owned audio set-ups. A reasonable level of cost for the complete package, yet very capable of capturing and transmitting this kind of event to the audience. Have no idea what a single package cost would be, but thinking $20,000 is sufficient.

In other words, “THIS is the system that will be in place at the show site.”  Understand its abilities and limitations in designing your presentations. THIS system is what you will connect to when you arrive to perform.

Some of you will be willing and able to purchase/lease the same set-up for your exclusive use at home and on the road. Your choice. But, this is what your staff will work with at the venue.

Something needs to be done in terms of standardization, I believe.  It is not reasonable to expect Flo, or any other firm, to reliably work with our product unless we start removing the many variables currently in place.

Fred, do not let my response discourage you from posting common-sense ideas like this one.  We need voices of reason here.

Unfortunately, the use of electronics on DCI fields was never really about making the spectator experience any better.  I used to think they at least intended to make the press box experience better - but that was a naive belief.  No, like so many things, common sense gets pushed aside by dollars and cents.

We need to remember that after amplification was rammed through (with all kinds of lies about smaller pits and creating more corps at less expense), the sound got worse.  Not just worse, but frequently, catastrophically worse.  Electronic amplification destroyed the ability of a drum corps to achieve the consistent excellence in quality of presentation that made its market in the first place.  They all knew this... and they kept doubling down on it.  They pushed for electronic instruments, and more related rule changes.  They established judging practices of awarding corps when A&E were used, while also ignoring any problems A&E caused in a performance.  Eventually, they changed the sheets to add A&E to the compulsory elements being judged. 

After 17 years of hindsight, I think it is clear that A&E were never intended to be an option for improving drum corps.  They were intended to be part of the business model.  DCI would be the showroom for A&E field applications, and every corps in DCI would be incentivized to try and demonstrate ways to use as much "stuff" as possible.  Whether the "stuff" really works or not is not the point.  As long as some portion of the marching band, winter guard and/or other pageantry arts start buying in (literally), it is worthwhile for DCI and their "corporate partners" to join forces with this agenda of piling more and more "stuff" into corps shows.

[Fred Windish]

Yes, cixelsyd. Posting here ain’t what it used to be!

Your reply is EXCELLENT. Many thanks for a well-worded, substantive response. Not enough of these. Generally, no matter what someone offers up will be too easily dismissed.

You, cixelsyd, have accurately explained what’s at work here, unfortunately. I do agree with your interpretation. One aspect of unlimited use of A&E is, the first 10 audience rows can become less appealing because of electronic abuses. When I did attend often, I very much wanted to sit down low for an unadulterated experience.

[Terri Schehr]

37 minutes ago, Fred Windish said:

Yes, cixelsyd. Posting here ain’t what it used to be!

Your reply is EXCELLENT. Many thanks for a well-worded, substantive response. Not enough of these. Generally, no matter what someone offers up will be too easily dismissed.

You, cixelsyd, have accurately explained what’s at work here, unfortunately. I do agree with your interpretation. One aspect of unlimited use of A&E is, the first 10 audience rows can become less appealing because of electronic abuses. When I did attend often, I very much wanted to sit down low for an unadulterated experience.

You aren’t kidding.  I moved from 140 section to section 240 for DCI next year because of hearing loss.  I can’t do it anymore.  It’s so loud, it hurts.

[cixelsyd]

21 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

You aren’t kidding.  I moved from 140 section to section 240 for DCI next year because of hearing loss.  I can’t do it anymore.  It’s so loud, it hurts.

OMG, that is so sad.  

I still prefer the blast zone... but I keep my hands free so that I can plug my ears during heavy electronic passages.  I think my hearing is okay, because I can still hear the amps just fine!