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March or Die thoughts 2021....


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18 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

This whole "vertical" thing has me at a loss.

I have to step up on a chair to change this one light bulb.  No one here is any more appreciative of that today than they were in 1972.  But I suppose that in the Czapinski household, whomever changes the light bulbs is now getting standing ovations.

One of these days someone is going to be seriously injured or killed from falling.

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7 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

This whole "vertical" thing has me at a loss.

I have to step up on a chair to change this one light bulb.  No one here is any more appreciative of that today than they were in 1972.  But I suppose that in the Czapinski household, whomever changes the light bulbs is now getting standing ovations.

Understood. The question that I couldn't possibly answer (again, having marched but never judged,) is DO those with more vertical staging score higher in effect categories and is it because of the difficulty of said staging (and doing it well of course.) It's a double edged sword. If you have a ton of prop staging and it causes issues with things like phasing, etc., then I would have to assume that you would see the results of that across multiple captions. But not knowing too terribly much about judging, I can't answer that. 

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1 hour ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

I can agree with that. And the question that you ask is and will most likely, always be the sticking point. I don't even think you can BEGIN to really answer that question until it can be determined how to score things like traditional horizontal staging of shows against a corps with a more modern vertical approach. 

Some people will say "times change and corps have to adapt to the new design elements." And they have a point...up to a point. But from the outside of the design model looking in, how can you expect a corps with a lower top 12 end budget to compete with BD and Bluecoats on production scale? Should they be scored lower because they can't keep up with the Joneses? 

This is such a hard nut to crack.  

Its actually easy to judge something traditional verses something modern. It comes down to HOW and WHY something was done and HOW WELL it was done. Just because someone has some fancy props does not mean they are used well  We have seen that )and make sense to the program. For me ( and I have judged ) it's not an advantage nor a disadvantage.

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You guys made me think on this..

  • The WHAT and the HOW are still adjudicated. They are (for the most part) the top vs the bottom half of the sheet in most circuits.
  • HORIZONTAL refers to the "through line" of a show ... and VERTICAL refers to "moments" in the show, like an EKG. There might be a smaller vertical moment that is the precursor to a larger vertical moment, for example, and how are those placed along the horizontal line. And is the horizontal line even complete to begin with? (which is a problem with inexperienced designers, usually)
    • Some very mature or well designed/produced shows also have multiple HORIZONTAL lines.
  • And do not forget that there is EMOTIONAL, INTELLECTUAL, and AESTHETIC effect potential triadic thoughts for designers.
  • Along with FORM, BODY, and EQUIPMENT potential triadic responsibilities for the performers. Which works well with the "multiplicity of demand" that people like Clarke Williams and Barry Swain used to talk about for many years, which now is referred to as "simultaneous responsibilities."
Edited by njthundrrd
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5 minutes ago, njthundrrd said:

You guys made me think on this..

  • The WHAT and the HOW are still adjudicated. They are (for the most part) the top vs the bottom half of the sheet in most circuits.
  • HORIZONTAL refers to the "through line" of a show ... and VERTICAL refers to "moments" in the show, like an EKG. There might be a smaller vertical moment that is the precursor to a larger vertical moment, for example and how are those placed along the vertical line. And is the vertical line even complete?
    • Some very mature or well designed/produced shows also have multiple HORIZONTAL lines.
  • And do not forget that there is EMOTIONAL, INTELLECTUAL, and AESTHETIC effect potential triadic thoughts for designers.
  • Along with FORM, BODY, and EQUIPMENT potential triadic responsibilities for the performers. Which works well with the "multiplicity of demand" that people like Clarke Williams and Barry Swain used to talk about for many years, which now is referred to as "simultaneous responsibilities."

Thanks for the break down and youre right. I just hate typing long  responses ( although sometimes have to) and of course sometimes when some people ask a question they truly want an answer or opinion, then there are those who ask a question to fuel a debate which often goes nowhere.

Weaklefthand I believe truly deserved an answer which maybe I didn't provide enough.......thanks

Edited by GUARDLING
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13 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Thanks for the break down and youre right. I just hate typing long  responses ( although sometimes have to) and of course sometimes when some people ask a question they truly want an answer or opinion, then there are those who ask a question to fuel a debate which often goes nowhere.

Weaklefthand I believe truly deserved an answer which maybe I didn't provide enough.......thanks

No problem. Glad I could be of some help. I am sure some will disagree with me, but I have been judging for nearly 40 years now, but I am confident in my training and who trained me. These are just the basics of the "philosophy" of judging. Experience helps you apply it in a judicious and in an educational/caring manner. 

Edited by njthundrrd
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20 minutes ago, njthundrrd said:

No problem. Glad I could be of some help. I am sure some will disagree with me, but I have been judging for nearly 40 years now, but I am confident in my training and who trained me. These are just the basics of the "philosophy" of judging. Experience helps you apply it in a judicious and in an educational/caring manner. 

I hear ya...truly. Not quite as complicated as it may seem

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1 hour ago, GUARDLING said:

Its actually easy to judge something traditional verses something modern. It comes down to HOW and WHY something was done and HOW WELL it was done. Just because someone has some fancy props does not mean they are used well  We have seen that )and make sense to the program. For me ( and I have judged ) it's not an advantage nor a disadvantage.

Oh?

Say corps 1 has a clever staff that uses fancy props effectively to support their theme.  Corps 2 has the same clever staff, but no volunteers capable of constructing fancy props and insufficient excess budget to hire that job out to qualified professionals.  No disadvantage there?

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1 hour ago, Mello Dude said:

One of these days someone is going to be seriously injured or killed from falling.

 

1 hour ago, GUARDLING said:

same can be said ( and Has ) of high speed whiplash drill that many people love.

I doubt that.  Whiplash drill has been around for 40 years.  How many have been killed by it?

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