March or Die thoughts 2021....

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, Boss Anova said:

  We make a mistake of we believe the shows are designed primarily for " fans ". Here is the frank truth.. they're not.  The shows are certainly not going to be purposely designed to be boring or unengaging  for most fans that attend a show or two during the season. But nowhere on the DCI judging sheets will we find " fans in the stands " as a consideration in the scoring numbers that judges will award in their point allotment.  It has not been this way in... well, since the inception of DCI itself.

 The DCI Corps met last week out in Indy. They voted ( unanimously ) to increase the limit of students on the field from 154 to 165. But from my reading of the reports from out there in Indy, there was no proposal put forth to change the judging sheets to better accommodate " fans ". 

Maybe not.  But this excerpt from the DCI.org news item explains how we might get that idea:

"Additional discussions centered around changes in the corps housing model, and the subsequent impact of numerous shifts in the traditional touring model as it related to rehearsal time allocation and format, audience engagement, programming choices, and a continued, growing focus on performer safety, health and wellness."

[Boss Anova]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

Well, that was uncalled for.  As even you know full well... 

My concerns with the "stuff" are not just trivial personal preferences.  My enjoyment of a show is not affected by the presence/absence of props or tarps, or whether the corps wears something different from what they wore last year.

At some level, though, including "stuff" has to make sense.  The drum corps activity is already very expensive without "stuff", and it depends on both fan revenue and charity for its survival.  Corporate partnerships/sponsorships do not cover the cost of incorporating all this "stuff" in drum corps shows.  So how does it make sense?

1.  It might make sense if the "stuff" added to the artistic/entertainment value of the product.  If truly effective, it could pay for itself in audience gained.  Unfortunately, such transformative change to drum corps has not produced a corresponding transformative gain in audience.  I ask questions here to explore why that is. 

Judging from the reluctance of anyone to admit that "stuff" even adds to scoring, much less true artistic/entertainment value, it seems that something different is going on.  It was like pulling teeth to get the admission that "stuff" can enhance competitive outcomes when used well.  Meanwhile, to the neutral observer, much of this "stuff" (particularly A&E, props and tarps) has frequently impaired effectiveness and at times disrupted performance.  Examples - songs based on an amplified soloist who cuts in/out (mostly out), destroying the melody for 25% of the show; marchers tripping/slipping on tarps; props not used on damp fields on account of either potential field damage or slip hazards.  But when "stuff" is used badly, scores do not suffer.  Scores only respond to "stuff" in a positive context, in complete denial of when they detract.  Never have heard a viable explanation for that.

2.  It could also make sense if the "stuff" is part of a longer-range plan.  If DCI leaders believed that aligning with the much better financed scholastic marching arts was their only hope for success, then transforming the activity with the inclusion of band/WGI "stuff" that is otherwise unsuitable/unaffordable for the DCI venue might be justified as a strategy for saving a subset of the corps (member corps) with the corporate support that a marching music major league/showroom approach might attract.

Ultimately, that course would work best if:

a.  Leadership would admit that they believe it impossible to sustain drum corps as a distinct artform.

b.  All marching arts "stuff" would have to be included (i.e. woodwinds).

c.  All "stuff" would have to be demonstrably successful on the DCI showroom floor (contest field).  Oh, maybe that explains why "stuff" only adds to scoring potential, and never detracts.

So far, answer #2 seems more likely than #1.  I cannot think of a #3 right now.  Chime in if you have one.

 DCI Drum Corps is not about what YOU want. ( Its not about what I want either ). DCI Corps will proceed with what they believe best serves the needs of their current 12-21 year old student market. You and I have no financial skin in the game beyond our ticket purchase, merchandise purchase, and perhaps donor dollars and/ or volunteer work we might provide here and there. How a Corps raises and spends their revenues is frankly none of my business. Its of no concern to me. They could care less what I think about how they spend THEIR money. I'm ok with that too, as that assessment is accurate. I dont care how they spend their money. I go to shows.,, buy some stuff. watch the corps perform.  I find I Like some of the shows, not so much some other shows, go home, and rest up, move on. Drum Corps is a nite out for me. Do it maybe 2 shows a year. Volunteer maybe a bit here and there, and its all good. No big deal.

[Continental]

8 hours ago, inbetween said:

DCP needs to unveil the carousel as its mascot. Some one ya'll spend your entire "online life" complaining about the same stuff.  

Did you mention carousel?........

 

[MikeD]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:30 PM, Mello Dude said:

 

The corps can write anything they want on the sheets.  Those that judge and interpret those sheets hold sway and the direction everyone will travel to achieve "score".

 

Those that judge continue to do so as long as their interpretations of the sheets are in line with how the corps have decided the sheets should be interpreted.

[MikeD]

18 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

sure. start a petition, get thousands of signatures, and someone to present it to the board.

 

then like with amps, watch as crickets chirp around the presenter before it goes absolutely nowhere.

...thankfully.   😀

[greg_orangecounty]

19 hours ago, Boss Anova said:

 By the way, I miss the Anaheim Kingsmen( 'saw on your avatar ). Did you march both the Junior Corps and Reunion Corps and if so, what instrument did you play( of you don;t mind me asking ). What a great Drum Corps BITD.

Yes, Junior Corps 71 - 74 and Alumni Corps in 2007.  I was a very marginal baritone.  Thanks for the kind words. Nice some remember us. 

[Terri Schehr]

1 hour ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Yes, Junior Corps 71 - 74 and Alumni Corps in 2007.  I was a very marginal baritone.  Thanks for the kind words. Nice some remember us. 

Hey, I remember.  I saw the alumni corps in Pasadena, too.  

[Jeff Ream]

22 hours ago, Boss Anova said:

WAT ?   I never stated, nor implied, that the Bridgemen were " universally loved ".  I know too they wern't as a matter of fact.  I personally preferred the St. Andrew's Bridgemen more traditional edition of the Bridgemen.... stylistically and with their traditional cadet styled uniform, shako, guard attire, ethos, etc  over that of the " modern " styled version of the Bridgemen that Corps Show Choreographer  Bobby Hoffman acknowledged back then he took inspiration from ( his words )  " street hookers and pimps ". I liked Larry Kerchner's brass arrangements, and the Percussion playing ( and arrangements ) of Dennis DeLucia, but  I was not a huge fan of the " modern " Bridgemen style at all back then either. Not then. Not now. So sure, I understand not every one's personal style of Drum Corps is shared " universally ". As a matter of fact, there has never been a single solitary Drum Corps " universally loved " by all.   There has never been shared universality among Drum Corps fans period... on anything.... ever.  We're not a monolithic group, thats why. ' Never have been.

i didnt say you mentioned Bayonne. i just threw that out as an example to back up your larger point

[Jeff Ream]

16 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

"Judges judge shows on the judging sheets . . "  sounds good, but it isn't realistic.

There is a lot of "wiggle room", in how a judge interprets a "sheet" ,especially in GE.

A judge likes what he sees, higher  GE scores.

Same with music, a judge likes jazz, that show scores higher.

I've actually had the chance to talk to a couple of judges about this.

They said they try to be objective, but human nature being what is, what I said, can  happen, albeit unintentionally.

Drum corps is an activity that, like gymnastics and skating, have scoring that is, to a great extent, subjective.

As far a complaining, I think corps know better. Complaints would just lead to lower scores from any judge they complain about.

Unfortunately, as long as corps yield to show designers who design based on their egos, not to please fans, it isn't going to change.

2021 should have been a wake up call for DCI.

We'll see next season.

 

well...as someone who judges GE....no.

i have often scored shows i wouldnt like as a fan well because it met the criteria on the sheets.Just as i have scored shows I would love as a fan low because...it didn't meet the criteria on the sheets. GE doesn't have the wiggle room you think it does. audio visual coordination, unified voice, idiomatic interpretation, communication....none of that has anything to do with like.

 

because it's easily available, here's a link to the music effect sheet for WGI percussion, which has many of the same criteria effect sheets in DCI have....point to me where "like" is on the sheet, implied on the sheet, hinted at on the sheet:

https://wgi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2020_WGI_Percussion_Effect-Music-MPE_-Scoresheet.pdf

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

 

You are missing the point of my question... which was to address several of you who seem unusually reluctant to admit that "stuff" impacts scoring.  There has to be some reason for corps to use all this "stuff".  Like this, for instance:

 

i didnt address it ( well i have a few times, but you must have missed it)....just having stuff doesnt impact scores. what and how you do things with said stuff does.