Jeff Ream Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 14 hours ago, cixelsyd said: I do not buy this argument anymore. In fact, I think it is exactly the opposite. I think: - fans have been walking away from DCI all through its history - leadership knows it - leadership is convinced (rightly or wrongly) that they cannot stop it from happening, so - they have chosen to pursue a support sector that they can hang onto - corporate partners/sponsors who make all this "stuff". fans have walked away from baseball. football. hockey. gymnastics. auto racing. symphonies. theater. movies. so whats their excuse? now i do think they realize fans have been walking away....because, well, fans have been walking away from day 2. More often than not, the actual product on the field is far less of a reason than you wish to admit to. Life happens. Kids. families. jobs. death. economy. moving on to other things. and what DCI kinda has finally realized is trying to capitulate to older fans while trying to garner new fans was a contradictory mission from the day they decided to go that way. My dad is 76, he still likes stuff out there. But there's fewer local shows, hes got grandkids events he likes to go see, he loves golf ( well maybe not now after he had to get a reverse shoulder replacement this past weekend)......so he'll pop over to see some stuff on Flo. maybe catch a corps if they rehearse nearby. But he's got too much going on to camp in Indy for 3 days or devote 2 days in Allentown. hell he'd rather i go to allentown so he can hang with his grand daughter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 12 hours ago, craiga said: Agree with all of this. I have been to 26 Allentowns in a row. Always have taken my RV with 3 or 4 buddies from Maine. Speaking for myself and MANY New England friends, we all didn't go this year only because it was five corps show...and we saw the same five corps three nights in a row that very week..Quincy and Lawrence (twice) Mass. It just wasn't worth it to make the 14 hour round trip to see the same five corps. thats why i didn't go....5 corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 9 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Maybe not. But this excerpt from the DCI.org news item explains how we might get that idea: "Additional discussions centered around changes in the corps housing model, and the subsequent impact of numerous shifts in the traditional touring model as it related to rehearsal time allocation and format, audience engagement, programming choices, and a continued, growing focus on performer safety, health and wellness." audience engagement most likely means little about the on field product and more about the instant encores that happened in Indy. they seem to think that concept is incredibly popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbobcat Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: well...as someone who judges GE....no. i have often scored shows i wouldnt like as a fan well because it met the criteria on the sheets.Just as i have scored shows I would love as a fan low because...it didn't meet the criteria on the sheets. GE doesn't have the wiggle room you think it does. audio visual coordination, unified voice, idiomatic interpretation, communication....none of that has anything to do with like. because it's easily available, here's a link to the music effect sheet for WGI percussion, which has many of the same criteria effect sheets in DCI have....point to me where "like" is on the sheet, implied on the sheet, hinted at on the sheet: https://wgi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2020_WGI_Percussion_Effect-Music-MPE_-Scoresheet.pdf From looking a the sheet you posted, how a show meets the scoring criteria is based on the individual judge's perception of meeting the criteria. I don't think anyone can put aside human nature and give, even if its unintentional, a "leg up" to what they like. As I posted, just like gymnastics and skating, as much as they may try to be objective, judges interpret performances with a certain degree of subjectivity. As I also posted, judges I've spoken to admit this can happen, albeit unintentionally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: well...as someone who judges GE....no. i have often scored shows i wouldnt like as a fan well because it met the criteria on the sheets.Just as i have scored shows I would love as a fan low because...it didn't meet the criteria on the sheets. GE doesn't have the wiggle room you think it does. audio visual coordination, unified voice, idiomatic interpretation, communication....none of that has anything to do with like. because it's easily available, here's a link to the music effect sheet for WGI percussion, which has many of the same criteria effect sheets in DCI have....point to me where "like" is on the sheet, implied on the sheet, hinted at on the sheet: https://wgi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2020_WGI_Percussion_Effect-Music-MPE_-Scoresheet.pdf On that sheet you linked, where it explains "Excellence as Effect", they use the phrase "elicits positive responses from the listener". That only happens when the listener likes what they are hearing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: On that sheet you linked, where it explains "Excellence as Effect", they use the phrase "elicits positive responses from the listener". That only happens when the listener likes what they are hearing. IS a poor attempt successful? The how and why! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: IS a poor attempt successful? The how and why! Oh please don’t ask for more verbiage from DCI to make sure the judges score isn’t subjective 🤪 I worked for govt, I know how more words in a document really help 😈 Edited September 30, 2021 by JimF-LowBari 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 34 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Oh please don’t ask for more verbiage from DCI to make sure the judges score isn’t subjective 🤪 I worked for govt, I know how more words in a document really help 😈 The how and why has been a basis for a long time in discribing effect and the success or failure of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: The how and why has been a basis for a long time in discribing effect and the success or failure of it Wasn’t directed toward you. Just my little dig at people who say the tic system was subjective but this system isn’t because it’s so well defined. May be well defined but still subjective that the corps matches whatever parameters. And I competed in 3 Senior circuits. I know how subjective the tic system was. 😆 Edited September 30, 2021 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inbetween Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 It is always so funny hearing people pretend they know how to read a sheet and apply it to a performance. Some of you are obviously clueless. But I'm sure some prefer to stay that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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