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March or Die thoughts 2021....


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27 minutes ago, Sutasaurus said:

If that’s the case, then why bother to tour? If the corps are raking in the cash with audition fees and membership fees why have competitions? Could it be that DCI relies on ticket sales and partnerships with Flo Marching to survive? I see the point you are trying to make here but it seems that one of the basic ingredients is missing. There are PLENTY of venues where the audience is mainly local people who come to a show as part of an annual celebration. It’s not just DCPers or parents of MMs but lots of Mr snd Ms Anytown USA who want a summer evening of entertainment. I think this is a good part of DCI’s and the corps’ bread and butter. Otherwise they wouldn’t do it?

 Drum Corps have " competitions " primarily because thats what their " audience " ( students ) want.  For decades, thats what DCI Marchers have wanted.  They " compete " for spots in line. The students move from one corps to another one, because they want to march in Corps that compete well on the field of competition. The DCI market would dry up in a heartbeat if DCI marketed itself to the young as doing " exhibitions " only each summer.

 DCI Drum Corps is not" relying on a partnership with Flo Marching to survive", so I really can't respond adequately to a premise and observation that is not accurate to begin with.  I dont think Flo Marching has more than 800 DCI Drum Corps subscribers, if that.. (lol !)

 As for who attends " local shows " while there are segments there that go every year and have for years and years, many of the local shows have sizable numbers there that are there to help the local band as sponsors of the show raise money for the band ( or the Corps ) from the sponsorship. Others are there as alums of the Corps sponsoring the show and are there to smooze with friends they see at the show once a year. Most only go to that one local show. I think we overestimate the importance of fans to DCI.  They can't exist without them, but its primarily the students that they market their product to. If the students did not like the product, then several hundreds of them would not audition for a spot in line for one of the available  155 spots each off season.

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2 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

 Drum Corps have " competitions " primarily because that what their " audience " ( students ) want.  For decades, thats what DCI Marchers want They " compete " for spots in line. They move from one corps to another one, because they want to march in Corps that compete well on the field.

 DCI Drum Corps is not" relying on a partnership with Flo Marching to survive", so I really can't respond adequately to a premise and observation that is not accurate to begin with.  I dontn think Flo Marching has more than 2,000 DCI subscribers, if that.. lol !

 As for who attends " local shows " while there are segments there that go every year and have for years and years, many of the local shows have sizable numbers there that are there to help the local band as sponsors of the show raise money for the band ( or the Corps ) from the sponsorship. Others are there as alums of the sponsoring show and are there to smooze with friends they see at the show one a year. Most only go to that one local show. I think we overestimate the importance of fans to DCI.  They can't exist without them, but its primarily the students that they market their product too. If the students did not like the product, then several hundreds of them would not audition for a spot in line for one of the available  155 spots each off season.

Why is the point not accurate?  FloMarching was just an example of the MANY partnerships that DCI has formed to stay afloat. Just scroll to the bottom of their webpage and take in the long list of sponsors. They work together to bring in new marching members who will use their products/ services. 

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28 minutes ago, Sutasaurus said:

Current trends like tarps, vertical props, hit or miss electronics to name a few. We touched on this very point several pages back. It’s monkey see/monkey do that gets rewarded. If a corps comes out and does an “old show” as you stated without putting a fresh twist on it, then yes they will not advance in the standings. Corps who perform a show that excites and entertains without the use of props or gimmicks should be recognized and rewarded as being just that and not scored lower because they decided to go the route of music and motion to entertain the audience.

 Madison Scouts " buck the trend " most years, and the " fans " you speak of love them. They finished 2nd this year in the fan poll ( Flo Marching ). Music City won the " fan poll ". in 2013. So whats the problem as you see it ? If the judges think these shows lack demand, substance, performer execution, and the like, and not up to top 12 abilities compared with their peer corps, so what ?   Do placements perhaps mean more  to you than your enjoyment level for a show.? If so..., why ? Lots of times the winning DCI show was not the fan favorite show that season. But so what ? Are the  marchers of the fans favorite shows bothered by their placements ?  My guess, no. Then whats your concern here ?

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21 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

 Madison Scouts " buck the trend " most years, and the " fans " you speak of love them. They finished 2nd this year in the fan poll ( Flo Marching ). Music City won the " fan poll ". in 2013. So whats the problem as you see it ? If the judges think these shows lack demand, substance, performer execution, and the like so what ?  

Lack of demand,substance,performer execution? Because corps A decides to drag around pointless props and rely on samplings to get their “design” across they should be held in higher standing? You’re missing points made earlier in this thread. Playing difficult music while marching a demanding drill while engaging the audience should be rewarded equally and that is what I feel is missing from the judges sheets. Again, this past season shown a light on the activity that many styles have a place in the competitive arena.

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2 hours ago, Sutasaurus said:

Why is the point not accurate?  FloMarching was just an example of the MANY partnerships that DCI has formed to stay afloat. Just scroll to the bottom of their webpage and take in the long list of sponsors. They work together to bring in new marching members who will use their products/ services. 

 I just dont see  corporate sponsors as drivers to " bring in new marching members " to these Corps that you seemingly do. My guess, if we asked the  " new marchers " to list these corporate sponsors, most of the  new auditioneers wouldn't be able to name for us more than 1 of the these corporate  sponsors.... if that.

 The biggest influence and driver of new marchers to DCI are their peers or their band director or someone they know that marched in their family. The notion that " corporate sponsors " are big drivers of new blood to Corps each off season is not an assessment I share.

 Disney used to be a Corporate sponsor of DCI. They even gave their " Disney Award " to a show a few of these " corporate " types liked. Did that award shape DCI show designers when that Corps finished out of the medals. Oh heavens no. The corporate sponsor Disney had no effect of future show designs with their annual award. I'm pretty confident that the show designers of today arn't considering how much the DCI Corporate sponsors may or may not like the show they are putting together these off seasons either.

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20 minutes ago, Sutasaurus said:

Lack of demand,substance,performer execution? Because corps A decides to drag around pointless props and rely on samplings to get their “design” across they should be held in higher standing? You’re missing points made earlier in this thread. Playing difficult music while marching a demanding drill while engaging the audience should be rewarded equally and that is what I feel is missing from the judges sheets. Again, this past season shown a light on the activity that many styles have a place in the competitive arena.

Look, I get you dont like the judges scores and placements, nor the judging sheets. But you are aware that all these Corps voted for these sheets, correct ?. I'm not aware of any outcry from these Corps to change the sheets because some Corps are placing too low ( or too high ) than they should. Are you ?  

 This notion that the fans favorite shows dont always place well, is really not a " 2021 " issue ( there were no placements/ scores ). Most years,  the most enjoyable shows don't win it all. I have no clue the difference between a 3rd place percussion line and a 12th place percussion line however. Not really. They sound the same to me.  Ihave no clue either  if one percussion section is playing easy or hard percussion parts. Maybe brass people here do, and so they can place Corps better than me as a result of their knowledge and experience on a snare drum, or with the front ensemble... or on a flag/rifle, or whatever. 

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25 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

 I just dont see  corporate sponsors as drivers to " bring in new marching members " to these Corps that you seemingly do. My guess, if we asked the  " new marchers " to list these corporate sponsors, most of the  new auditioneers wouldn't be able to name for us more than 1 of the these corporate sponsors sponsors.... if that.

 The biggest influence and driver of new marchers to DCI are their peers or their band director or someone they know that marched in their family. The notion that " corporate sponsors " are big drivers of new blood to Corps each off season is not an assessment I share.

 Disney used to be a Corporate sponsor of DCI. They even gave their " Disney Award " to a show a few of these " corporate " types liked. Did that award shapev DCI show designers when that Corps finished out of the meda;s. Oh heavens no. The corporate sponsor Disney had no effect of future show designs with their annual award. I'm pretty confident that the shosw designers of today arnt considering how much the DCI Corporate sponsors maay or may not like the show they are putting together.

Why do I feel there are two conversations going on here? DCI relies on many forms of partnerships to survive financially ticket sales included. The sponsorships are with companies who promote marching footwear, aero beds, mouthpieces, drum sticks…the list goes on. DCI chooses whom to do business with based on what the new members will buy. Pretty simple marketing. Today’s designers are consumers too and if they can get a deal from X prop company they will design a use for it in their next show.

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Boss Anova makes some good points about attendance.

I’ve been attending shows since the summer between 6th and 7th grade (1975), mostly local shows though local shows for some years included CYO Nationals and World Open. When the local circuits ended, it was DCE and shows sponsored by Boston Crusaders, Cadets, or Beanpot and Bristol. Since 2012 I have been going to Allentown, Indy, most years both but one year when I could not attend either I went to Atlanta. The crowd in Atlanta was much different than Allentown and Indy. The majority were high school and college age or so it seemed. I sat in a section with some fairly recent Cadets alums but was surrounded by enthusiastic high schoolers. The following night at NightBEAT, it was a much younger crowd than the shows I attend in Massachusetts and New Jersey. 

Regarding Allentown, I have not noticed a change in the audience since it went to the two night show. The stands are filled, but my guess would be it is filled with alums and it does have a reunion like atmosphere. Indy has grown. Where I do disagree a bit with Boss Anova is that the majority in attendance are parents, friends, family members of marchers. A good number in attendance are, no question family members and friends, but I don’t think that number grows. My guess is that the numbers in this group has remained the same over the years and it is sizable, and it could be the largest subgroup, but it’s not the majority. I do agree with seeing few alums after they age out, maybe 10-15%. This has also been the case for a number of years. Something I have found interesting over the years is that some kids who march cannot wait to get into the stands to watch competitors, 2021 being  the exception due to the “bubble.” Others never see their competitors shows. I know in my case, when I was in high school and college, I knew more about repertoires, scores, and placements than some friends who marched, and I’m talking about kids who marched in DCI finalist corps. They just weren’t interested. For those who were interested, they would tell me explicit reasons why corps placed as they did. Some like the activity, others like performing. Some of course like both, but my guess is those who don’t watch shows when they are free are not the first to go to shows in the future.

My thought, and it’s mostly anecdotal, is Bands of America may be a huge factor in attendance growing in Indy. Grand Nationals take place in Indy, so folks know the terrain. It seems to me like I meet quite a few families where one of the kids has marched with a BOA band and the families make DCI’s part of their vacation even though in some cases it means the kids miss the first few days of school. I know that when DVD’s were available and sold at Grand Nationals, the sales were huge. I would venture to say that scholastic bands do more than populate drum corps, the fans may be filling the stands in Indy and could account for growth in attendance at finals.

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1 hour ago, Sutasaurus said:

Current trends like tarps, vertical props, hit or miss electronics to name a few. We touched on this very point several pages back. It’s monkey see/monkey do that gets rewarded. If a corps comes out and does an “old show” as you stated without putting a fresh twist on it, then yes they will not advance in the standings. Corps who perform a show that excites and entertains without the use of props or gimmicks should be recognized and rewarded as being just that and not scored lower because they decided to go the route of music and motion to entertain the audience.

 I understand where you are coming from on some of this, as some things on the sheets need to be scrapped, or at least tweeked a bit at minimum.

 For just one example, if a Corps utilizes a solo singer as its primary soloist to drive their theme that season, and there is a major malfunction of the engineering in that performance, and as such the soloist delivery ( not her fault ) becomes such a complete mess of the solo that it sounds like she is singing underwater thru bubbles, then that botched solo ( again, not her fault ) should be negatively effected on the GE Music sheets in a major way that performance. There are numerous other examples where the judging sheets missed( imo ) what was really the performance level on that nite.

 

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2 hours ago, Sutasaurus said:

 Corps who perform a show that excites and entertains without the use of props or gimmicks should be recognized and rewarded as being just that and not scored lower because they decided to go the route of music and motion to entertain the audience.

 I know you marched Phantom Regiment. Phantom Regiment placed 3rd in 1993, and they were my favorite Corps show that season. They played familiar music, with traditional Guard, and had fabulous solos throughout. It was not just me that loved the Phantom Regiment show that season ,but so didnt many fans from all across the country that year.

 Most fans in 1993 were not in love with the 1993 Star of Indiana show.  Many called it " boring ".... others " weird "... others " unexciting "... while others used words to describe that show that one could not utilize in polite company.

 When the Judges had this show winning the Quarter Finals, and just a tenth out of 1st place on Finals Night, quite a few people in 1993 were not happy with the rewarding of this show by the judges with ( as said by more than a few fans ) " weird poles as props instead of real, genuine, traditional Color Guard equipment ". The music for many was considered " unappealing ", and for others " unrecognizable ". The 1993 Star of Indiana show/ music/ visuals/ was the ultimate " esoteric show " that few appreciated in 1993... including many of the young H.S. students that went to shows that season. I recall well the dislike in many quarters for this show. ( I was one of these " fans" in 1993 ).  One would be hard pressed to find much support among the ticket purchasing " audience " nation wide that this 1st/ 2nd placement show by the judges got it right.

 But fast forward to today, and I can understand now what the judges saw and heard in 1993 with this brilliantly conceived and performed masterpiece  I was frankly not ready for this type of " modern show " in 1993. The judges were however. To their credit.. Many of the generation of today sees and hears what many of us missed back in 1993. Thankfully, we still have some Corps show designers that dance to the beat of the different drummer, and choose to go the road less traveled in how they design a show. They dont go back. They forge ahead and hope that in time, we will catch up to what they produced for us that, while not appreciated at the time, might ultimately stand the test of time. The BEST judge of something's worth, imo.

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