March or Die thoughts 2021....

[Boss Anova]

2 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

I don't know about cixelsyd but I sure am! 

 Great !... Lets roll !!. Lets fix this !!.... Fix it all !!!  😊

Edited September 29, 2021 by Boss Anova

[Jeff Ream]

16 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Well, then, it should be of no consequence if we just ended the practice by banning their use, right?

sure. start a petition, get thousands of signatures, and someone to present it to the board.

 

then like with amps, watch as crickets chirp around the presenter before it goes absolutely nowhere.

[Jeff Ream]

11 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

It was just a question from one person to another, not a formal proposal to the DCI Rules Congress or a call to end all democracy.

But since I have your attention - this is not the first time we have heard this sort of double-speak about the ever-increasing array of "stuff" in drum corps.  Whatever kind of "stuff" it may be (any-key, any-brass, any-pit-percussion, anything electronic, props, tarps, annual recostuming), there is this fervent fight to include it in an activity of limited financial resources.  Yet, at the same time, there is this fervent denial that it has any affect on the score a corps receives. 

Where do you stand on those two issues?  Do you think this "stuff" should be in drum corps?  And do you think it adds anything to the scoring power of a competitive show?

it doesnt matter what i think. if i decide i don't like it, i'll just stop spending money on it. and despite all of the threats of boycotts, walking away, etc, with every other rules change or addition that upset folks of whatever generation, nowhere near enough people walked away to affect the bottom line in a way to get attention of those voting.

 

that, and convince kids it's not worth it and not march.

 

as for the stuff used in a show....if it's used well, then boom, it wins. i've yet to see props on any sheet anywhere..or tarps, uniforms...if anything electronics is referenced for balance only. Come to think of it the percussion sheet doesnt list specific instrumentation and i dont think the brass sheets mentioned the key of the instruments. Specifically using something doesn't get you points. 

[Jeff Ream]

11 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

Then why are all corps doing it since it costs an amazing amount?  When marching and playing are not given equal or MORE credit for demand that falls on judges and the way they interpret sheets.

The corps can write anything they want on the sheets.  Those that judge and interpret those sheets hold sway and the direction everyone will travel to achieve "score".

Opinions based on evidence and empirical evidence are something to behold.

monkey see monkey do. once a corps added contras, why did others? Once the grounded tympani, why follow ( besides common sense). same for keyboards. triples to quads to quints to sixes. rudimental bass to tonal bass to what they do now. 15 inch drums to 14 inch drums. symmetrical drill to asymmetrical drill. body. sabers. remember double ended flags? power ballad endings? 180 BPM? 

 

it's been that way in the activity since day 2. someone tries something, people see it worked for them, so they try it too....but doesn't always have the same success.

[Jeff Ream]

10 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

everything on the field adds or subtracts from a program..its the how and why. If a corps wants to present something expect it to affect the entire production  good or bad...A comparison although small would be a flag color choice...does it add or subtract from the musical production, create a mood, set the stage....now of course one can also have an opinion on that I suppose.

Again, it will change( or not ) when corps want it to change, and not before. that is the bottom line

perfect example...SCV finally unveiled those tarps. oops, didn't really work. a few days later they were gone.

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, Boss Anova said:

 The reality is that the judges judge the shows on the judging sheets that these Corps approved. The reality is that there is no outcry from the Corps that their placements and scores were out of wack. The non reality " bubble world " for you is that you believe your reality of the discontent with the sheets. scores, placements is shared by the Corps  themselves that are judged and scored under the current system. But without evidence of such widespread discontent by the Corps themselves on scores and placements and the body of work by the judging community,  there is no support from the Corps to change the sheets, nor how the judges currently score these corps. THATS the reality. Do  some fans live in a " bubble world " of what should and should not be allowed on the field, and what should and should not be rewarded on the field of competition ?Oh sure. No doubt. Same as it ever was. DCI, or pre DCI years. You name the decade, some fans were having frustrations on what they were seeing/ hearing on the field, and with what the judges were rewarding that some fans did not approve of. But Judges are not sent here from Heaven ( or sent up from that other place ). They are approved by the Corps. And God did not send down from the Mount the 10 Commandments of what should be a venial or mortal sin in display by Corps on the Field. The Corps chose this. They voted for it.  In every decade.  Blame the Corps for this system you apparently don't like. Its not the judges that are to blame for your discontent and/ or frustration with what they do.

preach. despite the rose colored glasses, the Bridgemen in 76 were NOT universally loved.

[Jeff Ream]

3 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Thank You 🙂 It can be a challenge...lol

good job dude!

[Boss Anova]

3 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Fact Check...............TRUE!

 By the way, I miss the Anaheim Kingsmen( 'saw on your avatar ). Did you march both the Junior Corps and Reunion Corps and if so, what instrument did you play( of you don;t mind me asking ). What a great Drum Corps BITD.

[Boss Anova]

57 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

preach. despite the rose colored glasses, the Bridgemen in 76 were NOT universally loved.

WAT ?   I never stated, nor implied, that the Bridgemen were " universally loved ".  I know too they wern't as a matter of fact.  I personally preferred the St. Andrew's Bridgemen more traditional edition of the Bridgemen.... stylistically and with their traditional cadet styled uniform, shako, guard attire, ethos, etc  over that of the " modern " styled version of the Bridgemen that Corps Show Choreographer  Bobby Hoffman acknowledged back then he took inspiration from ( his words )  " street hookers and pimps ". I liked Larry Kerchner's brass arrangements, and the Percussion playing ( and arrangements ) of Dennis DeLucia, but  I was not a huge fan of the " modern " Bridgemen style at all back then either. Not then. Not now. So sure, I understand not every one's personal style of Drum Corps is shared " universally ". As a matter of fact, there has never been a single solitary Drum Corps " universally loved " by all.   There has never been shared universality among Drum Corps fans period... on anything.... ever.  We're not a monolithic group, thats why. ' Never have been.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Boss Anova

[rpbobcat]

10 hours ago, Boss Anova said:

 The reality is that the judges judge the shows on the judging sheets that these Corps approved. The reality is that there is no outcry from the Corps that their placements and scores were out of wack. The non reality " bubble world " for you is that you believe your reality of the discontent with the sheets. scores, placements is shared by the Corps  themselves that are judged and scored under the current system. But without evidence of such widespread discontent by the Corps themselves on scores and placements and the body of work by the judging community,  there is no support from the Corps to change the sheets, nor how the judges currently score these corps. THATS the reality. Do  some fans live in a " bubble world " of what should and should not be allowed on the field, and what should and should not be rewarded on the field of competition ?Oh sure. No doubt. Same as it ever was. DCI, or pre DCI years. You name the decade, some fans were having frustrations on what they were seeing/ hearing on the field, and with what the judges were rewarding that some fans did not approve of. But Judges are not sent here from Heaven ( or sent up from that other place ). They are approved by the Corps. And God did not send down from the Mount the 10 Commandments of what should be a venial or mortal sin in display by Corps on the Field. The Corps chose this. They voted for it.  In every decade.  Blame the Corps for this system you apparently don't like. Its not the judges that are to blame for your discontent and/ or frustration with what they do.

"Judges judge shows on the judging sheets . . "  sounds good, but it isn't realistic.

There is a lot of "wiggle room", in how a judge interprets a "sheet" ,especially in GE.

A judge likes what he sees, higher  GE scores.

Same with music, a judge likes jazz, that show scores higher.

I've actually had the chance to talk to a couple of judges about this.

They said they try to be objective, but human nature being what is, what I said, can  happen, albeit unintentionally.

Drum corps is an activity that, like gymnastics and skating, have scoring that is, to a great extent, subjective.

As far a complaining, I think corps know better. Complaints would just lead to lower scores from any judge they complain about.

Unfortunately, as long as corps yield to show designers who design based on their egos, not to please fans, it isn't going to change.

2021 should have been a wake up call for DCI.

We'll see next season.