Incognito365 Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, wilme861 said: I disagree. This has been a running thing for a while with people saying Crowns percussion is causing so many issues or holding the corps back (I’m generalizing comments here) from winning. Let me be clear, this Crown line is crazy good. Stupidly good. The problem is, I would probably say the top 10 maybe even 12-13 corps have GREAT lines with the top 5-6 having truly elite ridiculous lines. The reason that’s such an issue is because of how judging scores these lines. DCI judges try to never tie groups in the sub captions. They try to rank groups and give an appropriate spread (again generalizing here) which naturally means if you have 5 or 6 groups that are truly elite, are you going to fit all 5 or 6 in the 8.9-9.0 range that they realistically probably are? Or are you going to rank them and give them 9.0, 8.9, 8.8, 8.7 and 8.6 like what was done in Broken Arrow? With that happening, the “weak” line is going to have an overall percussion score of 17.2 versus the top 18.0. Is there really THAT big of a difference between those lines? In DCI scoring yes, but go out there and actually listen and watch for yourself and you’ll see just how good all of them are. I’ve been to a couple shows now live, and seen the lots for BD, Boston, Crown, Vanguard and Bluecoats. I went to those lots with 4 other percussion guys and the only thing we all agreed on was Boston and BD have probably the best lines this year but all of us disagreed on the 3rd, 4th and 5th rankings. Granted this is basing off the lots NOT the field which can change stuff but still. Either way, if you’re a percussion guy, this is up there with one of the best years for DCI percussion, if not THE best. And Crown’s line is definitely in that grouping. I was just talking to someone about the percussion, and I think the issue is either the writing or the pit. I think the battery is executing pretty well, but I haven't really watched the pit this year or really listened to them either. I'll probably be doing that tonight. This is all coming from someone who never played percussion though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 On the previous topic, I visit Crown’s thread because it is possibly the best corps thread. The posters are informed, witty, and passionate about the activity and their corps. Crown has earned their status among the elite because of consistent excellence, originality, and for never playing it safe. As for any friction, I apologize for anything I’ve said, done, or posted to contribute to that. Sincerely. Whole threads could be dedicated to analyzing the origins of why some ancient BAC homers (like me) are the way they are… not that it excuses anything. Back to the topic of this thread, I’m wishing Crown their best season yet. I’ll be cheering for each success and achievement. The last three years were difficult for fans of the activity. So glad to see everyone on here and enjoying the activity’s return. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito365 Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ediker said: On the previous topic, I visit Crown’s thread because it is possibly the best corps thread. The posters are informed, witty, and passionate about the activity and their corps. Crown has earned their status among the elite because of consistent excellence, originality, and for never playing it safe. As for any friction, I apologize for anything I’ve said, done, or posted to contribute to that. Sincerely. Whole threads could be dedicated to analyzing the origins of why some ancient BAC homers (like me) are the way they are… not that it excuses anything. Back to the topic of this thread, I’m wishing Crown their best season yet. I’ll be cheering for each success and achievement. The last three years were difficult for fans of the activity. So glad to see everyone on here and enjoying the activity’s return. Thank you for the classy reply! Always a class act, and one of my favorite members of this forum because so! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndakay27 Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 30 minutes ago, Incognito365 said: I was just talking to someone about the percussion, and I think the issue is either the writing or the pit. I think the battery is executing pretty well, but I haven't really watched the pit this year or really listened to them either. I'll probably be doing that tonight. This is all coming from someone who never played percussion though. In 2019, I recall hearing that there were more corrections related to the pit on the tapes than the battery. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsxanax Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ediker said: On the previous topic, I visit Crown’s thread because it is possibly the best corps thread. The posters are informed, witty, and passionate about the activity and their corps. Crown has earned their status among the elite because of consistent excellence, originality, and for never playing it safe. As for any friction, I apologize for anything I’ve said, done, or posted to contribute to that. Sincerely. Whole threads could be dedicated to analyzing the origins of why some ancient BAC homers (like me) are the way they are… not that it excuses anything. Back to the topic of this thread, I’m wishing Crown their best season yet. I’ll be cheering for each success and achievement. The last three years were difficult for fans of the activity. So glad to see everyone on here and enjoying the activity’s return. I don’t pretend for a moment to speak for CrownLAND in its entirety, but that’s w/o question one of the kindest, most articulate compliments I’ve ever read. BAC’s aces with me, and every success as we steer towards Indy… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito365 Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 minute ago, lyndakay27 said: In 2019, I recall hearing that there were more corrections related to the pit on the tapes than the battery. I wish tapes were released to the public in some type of forum at the end of the season. I'd love to hear what the judges have to say about these shows. Maybe just release the regionals and Indy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWise Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 Just now, lyndakay27 said: In 2019, I recall hearing that there were more corrections related to the pit on the tapes than the battery. I just wish I knew more about it. How it is judged .. It’s a totally knowledge gap .. I got roped into marimba for a short moment just because I could read piano music. One stick in each hand .. not this modern pit work. But you marched with it .. with this torture carrier device. It went around your neck too .. baritone/tuba were my core instruments 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsxanax Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 38 minutes ago, wilme861 said: I disagree. This has been a running thing for a while with people saying Crowns percussion is causing so many issues or holding the corps back (I’m generalizing comments here) from winning. Let me be clear, this Crown line is crazy good. Stupidly good. The problem is, I would probably say the top 10 maybe even 12-13 corps have GREAT lines with the top 5-6 having truly elite ridiculous lines. The reason that’s such an issue is because of how judging scores these lines. DCI judges try to never tie groups in the sub captions. They try to rank groups and give an appropriate spread (again generalizing here) which naturally means if you have 5 or 6 groups that are truly elite, are you going to fit all 5 or 6 in the 8.9-9.0 range that they realistically probably are? Or are you going to rank them and give them 9.0, 8.9, 8.8, 8.7 and 8.6 like what was done in Broken Arrow? With that happening, the “weak” line is going to have an overall percussion score of 17.2 versus the top 18.0. Is there really THAT big of a difference between those lines? In DCI scoring yes, but go out there and actually listen and watch for yourself and you’ll see just how good all of them are. I’ve been to a couple shows now live, and seen the lots for BD, Boston, Crown, Vanguard and Bluecoats. I went to those lots with 4 other percussion guys and the only thing we all agreed on was Boston and BD have probably the best lines this year but all of us disagreed on the 3rd, 4th and 5th rankings. Granted this is basing off the lots NOT the field which can change stuff but still. Either way, if you’re a percussion guy, this is up there with one of the best years for DCI percussion, if not THE best. And Crown’s line is definitely in that grouping. As a someone that doesn’t know the difference in a flim or a flam, that provides tremendous context for understanding Crown’s perc “situation.” If that’s significantly contributed to coming up short this—and earlier—years as well, thems be the breaks. At least it’s a caption that’s a bit more objective. The difficulty and level of execution of a corp’s perc book is something an expert should be able to accurately rank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlanets Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, wilme861 said: I disagree. This has been a running thing for a while with people saying Crowns percussion is causing so many issues or holding the corps back (I’m generalizing comments here) from winning. Let me be clear, this Crown line is crazy good. Stupidly good. The problem is, I would probably say the top 10 maybe even 12-13 corps have GREAT lines with the top 5-6 having truly elite ridiculous lines. The reason that’s such an issue is because of how judging scores these lines. DCI judges try to never tie groups in the sub captions. They try to rank groups and give an appropriate spread (again generalizing here) which naturally means if you have 5 or 6 groups that are truly elite, are you going to fit all 5 or 6 in the 8.9-9.0 range that they realistically probably are? Or are you going to rank them and give them 9.0, 8.9, 8.8, 8.7 and 8.6 like what was done in Broken Arrow? With that happening, the “weak” line is going to have an overall percussion score of 17.2 versus the top 18.0. Is there really THAT big of a difference between those lines? In DCI scoring yes, but go out there and actually listen and watch for yourself and you’ll see just how good all of them are. I’ve been to a couple shows now live, and seen the lots for BD, Boston, Crown, Vanguard and Bluecoats. I went to those lots with 4 other percussion guys and the only thing we all agreed on was Boston and BD have probably the best lines this year but all of us disagreed on the 3rd, 4th and 5th rankings. Granted this is basing off the lots NOT the field which can change stuff but still. Either way, if you’re a percussion guy, this is up there with one of the best years for DCI percussion, if not THE best. And Crown’s line is definitely in that grouping. Battery, front ensemble, or both? I completely agree with you about battery and most of the top 12 have fantastic, entertaining lines on the field. I rarely see anyone discussing front ensemble specifically but they are the backbone of most DCI shows. Edited July 23, 2022 by ThePlanets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilme861 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, ThePlanets said: Battery, front ensemble, or both? I completely agree with you about battery and most of the top 12 have fantastic, entertaining lines on the field. I rarely see anyone discussing front ensemble specifically but they are the backbone of most DCI shows. Battery, all my percussion friends that I go to shows with are all battery guys and definitely not experts when it comes to front ensembles. We know the basics but no where close enough to judge them. We just always go with the assumption that the front is equal to the battery and rank based off that. Definitely not perfect but it’s the only way we can do it. With judges now being limited to the sidelines, the percussion score may be even more influenced by the front than ever before though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.