Carolina Crown 2022

[scheherazadesghost]

21 minutes ago, BWise said:

we’re not talking about the positive of CrownGuard being right on the hunt for #1

No way man I called that #### on their achievement score that was through the roof last night! They're hungry.

21 minutes ago, BWise said:

In a similar way why aren’t we asking what’s wrong with SCV or what’s wrong with Bloo. 

I think a lot of people are asking what's wrong with both shows. It just happens that Crown has had their full book longer, which is smart, gives the MMs more time to master it. But it's not the same as Bloo or SC who are developing their shows a bit more gradually over time. Bloo gets less beef because they're going sooooo off the wall that people are having trouble analyzing. SC is getting blasted for wholly different things than the other two.

I agree that Crown is getting unique heat but that's because....

21 minutes ago, BWise said:

The whole show is very exposed on all caps. I give them credit for doing something risky.

This cannot be OVERstated. This show is risky in so many ways. People who aren't giving them credit for that are blind.

I've performed creatively risky shows. One little mistake could set off a whole bunch of others. That's why I keep saying that they can't overhype... they HAVE to focus to wrangle this beast the designers gave them. The judges scores last night indicate that they're seeing the effort that MMs are putting in to do so.

I just think Crown would benefit from some creative editing. They'd benefit in a number of ways. And that's a great place to be in this part of the season!

Edited July 30, 2022 by scheherazadesghost

[henry7184]

5 minutes ago, nsxanax said:

Deep questions…all. With notable exception of BD, all mortal corps seem to have periods of ebb & flow, both in performance and design. That we are now on the precipice of yet another Crown season, where they’re in a dogfight just to remain top five [and in the PBS era making the televised broadcast] it’s been quite humbling considering the powerhouse they had become in the late aughts. 

I lack far to much knowledge of the activity and have zero connections with Crown cognoscenti to even hazard a guess to where the organization’s heading.
 

 

I don't think they are at risk of dropping out of the top 5. I would say their ebb & flow period was between 2008 and 2015. Since then, they have just been slightly down due to design. I'm not sure what the answers are, but it's just not working in Fort Mill. They need to go back to the drawing board. It's almost like they thought they didn't have enough in 2019 and overcompensated for that, because the design this year is just way too much. It looks very messy in comparison to most of the top 12 corps. It's just not cleanable, at least to the level required to medal.

[BWise]

Well .. I FOR ONE IN NO WAY THINK THE SEASON IS OVER AND WE GET A HEALTHY CORPS ON THE FIELD .. THINGS CAN HAPPEN .. NO THROWING IN THE TOWEL .. NO STAFF CHANGE TALK. (After season talk). WE NEED TO GET BEHIND THE TEAM AND SUPPORT .. go get it CROWN 👑🔥👑🔥👑

Edited July 30, 2022 by BWise

[henry7184]

9 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

I agree that Crown is getting unique heat but that's because....

This cannot be understated. This show is risky in so many ways. People who aren't giving them credit for that are blind.

I've performed creatively risky shows. One little mistake could set off a whole bunch of others. That's why I keep saying that they can't overhype... they HAVE to focus to wrangle this beast the designers gave them. The judges scores last night indicate that they're seeing the effort that MMs are putting in to do so.

I just think Crown would benefit from some creative editing. They'd benefit in a number of ways. And that's a great place to be in this part of the season!

How do you see this as risky? I would sincerely love your thoughts here, because maybe I am missing something, or blind. I am blind without my reading glasses 🙂 I see it as similar to what they have been doing for almost a decade. That demanding fast paced drill, props that really aren't utilized, fast and loud music. I don't see the risk in this show, and to me that's part of the problem. I'd classify corps, this year, like Bluecoats and Vanguard as being risky, especially Vanguard.

I think the show is certainly difficult because there is just so much going on, and that's also part of the problem - there's too much going on. It reminds me of the 2006 Cadets. But, what differentiates them is 2006 Cadets were masters at getting us to look at what they wanted us to look at. As annoying as what I was looking at was, I appreciated that. Here's an area where Crown suffers too. Take the ballad, for example. The upper brass with their heads poking through the tarp - staying stationary for a long time and playing. THAT's what we're all looking at, but is that what Crown wants us to look at - yes and no. Certainly for the initial effect, but I'm not sure the intent is to have the focus be there for such a long time. The low brass is on the other side of the field, actually contributing visually, yet no one is looking at them.

I think they'd make this show better by taking out all the fabric (it just looks sloppy) and getting rid of the hornline using the streamers in the drum solo. The work is remedial, at best, they are stationary the whole time while doing the work, and it creates more slop on the field when they lay the streamers done.

This show has good bones, it's just that the editing stick was lost some where in Fort Mill.

Edited July 30, 2022 by henry7184

[scheherazadesghost]

1 minute ago, henry7184 said:

How do you see this ask risky? I see it as similar to what they have been doing for almost a decade. That demanding fast paced drill, props that really aren't utilized, fast and loud music. I don't see the risk in this show, and to me that's part of the problem. I'd classify corps, this year, like Bluecoats and Vanguard as being risky, especially Vanguard.

I think the show is certainly difficult because there is just so much going on, and that's also part of the problem - there's too much going on. It reminds me of the 2006 Cadets. But, what differentiates them is 2006 Cadets were masters at getting us to look at what they wanted us to look at. As annoying as what I was looking at was, I appreciated that. Here's an area where Crown suffers too. Take the ballad, for example. The upper brass with their heads poking through the tarp - staying stationary for a long time and playing. THAT's what we're all looking at, but is that what Crown wants us to look at - yes and no. Certainly for the initial effect, but I'm not sure the intent is to have the focus be there for such a long time. The low brass is on the other side of the field, actually contributing visually, yet no one is looking at them.

I think they'd make this show better by taking out all the fabric (it just looks sloppy) and getting rid of the hornline using the streamers in the drum solo. The work is remedial, at best, they are stationary the whole time while doing the work, and it creates more slop on the field when they lay the streamers done.

This show has good bones, it's just that the editing stick was lost some where in Fort Mill.

It's creatively risky to gather so many diverse visual elements under such a broad theme. The precision by which the performers execute these elements is obscured because there's so much going on. That's risky.

What's also risky is the book's demand on the MMs. Are they handling? Yes, the judges proved that last night with the guard's achievement score. But what that means is that the guard and the rest of the corps have to keep a shitton of spinning plates in the air for potentially longer than other corps. That's also risky. But the bet I'm guessing the instructors are making is that the longer the corps has the full, wild book in their hands, the longer they have to perfect it. They're going about it the right way pedagogically... but again, it's a creative/pedagogical risk.

I don't have a problem with any singular creative element in this show. I just think there's so many that it obscures the work MMs are doing and increases their demand. That's all.

[scheherazadesghost]

And please know that none of my feedback is based on my personal aesthetic. I'm only analyzing for funsies so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

I love this show. Again, I wish I were young enough to perform in it. This is the ATTENTION GRABBER show this year and if I wanted to turn a total layperson on to drum corps for the first time, I'd show them Crown 22. It's fun, there's no shortage of things to look at... c'mon, what more could you want?

I just hate to see this show get analyzed to death... especially when those analyzing aren't providing solutions. That's what I'm trying to do here... not that anyone on Crown should listen, but it's better than pointing at the gaps and throwing your hands up!

[WarriorWay]

11 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Placement doesn't matter.

The MMs having fun with the audience is what matters.

That show is a blast and I'll be sad that I didn't get to see it person. Still, I'd LOVE to have been able to spin this show!!

Of course, always true. But in a competitive activity the game can be discussed 

[scheherazadesghost]

2 minutes ago, WarriorWay said:

Of course, always true. But in a competitive activity the game can be discussed 

Psshhh, you're preaching to the choir. Look at how I breakdown scoring and analysis, homes. 🙂

I'm saying that talk of placement shouldn't overshadow other things. In the case of Crown, I worry that fans are analyzing the show to death more than appreciating it for what it is.

That's why I said that.

Edited July 30, 2022 by scheherazadesghost

[WarriorWay]

1 hour ago, Newseditor44 said:

From and entertainment standpoint, the corps is doing its job and connecting with the audience. From a competitive standpoint, this show is getting eaten alive. The fact that there have been no major changes signals to me that the design team may have thrown in the towel and is trying to make the most with what they’ve got. Nothing wrong with that, it is what it is at this point.  That said, this has been 6 years of subpar design that has to leave everyone wondering, does Crown still have it or are they in decline? How does this impact recruiting? Can percussion ever get above 6th place? What’s going on in brassland? Lots of questions to be answered, but it looks like the rest of the activity is passing Crown in terms of design, and it might be time to blow this thing up and start again. This is making Leon May look like a genius right now. 
 

Is Jim and Nancy’s way of running this organization finally catching up to them? 

Leon has always better than Jeff, I  know he taught him but obviously his interpretation for Crown hasn’t worked. Works for Vandegrift in Austin though

Edited July 30, 2022 by WarriorWay

[BWise]

2 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

And please know that none of my feedback is based on my personal aesthetic. I'm only analyzing for funsies so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

I love this show. Again, I wish I were young enough to perform in it. This is the ATTENTION GRABBER show this year and if I wanted to turn a total layperson on to drum corps for the first time, I'd show them Crown 22. It's fun, there's no shortage of things to look at... c'mon, what more could you want?

I just hate to see this show get analyzed to death... especially when those analyzing aren't providing solutions. That's what I'm trying to do here... not that anyone on Crown should listen, but it's better than pointing at the gaps and throwing your hands up!

Yup .. and again it ain’t over. But I don’t think the time is right to start talking about how the org is run and how brilliant Leon May is and they need to fire everyone start over. Those that say it could be over for Crown need to go back and review the placements pre 2016.. hogwash. Not speaking to you specifically but some others …