nsxanax Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, ZTWright said: Long time reader, first time poster. From a design standpoint, and as someone with a background in design, the glaring issue I find is visual. Sacktig is one of my favorites, and when he's on it he knocks it out of the park, but he has had some flops and I believe this year is one of his flops. There are forms that collapse in transitions causing the members to almost hit elbows, which is causing a big portion of the VA issues as well as GE. There are also forms that truly don't make sense, i.e. the hit form in the opener. I also think that the main issue is the performers have grown tired and the show has gotten stale. The design team threw everything out from week one, and nothing major has changed. From a performer standpoint, we all grow tired of the mundane, and that's what has happened here. No major changes, only miniscule changes, and the performances have suffered due to lack of challenging changes to keep the performers on their toes. With that said, I still love the show, but it is one I will be listening to for years to come instead of watching. The visual package has left much to be desired. The design team is onto something, but they need to focus on one idea rather than 5 different ideas for one show. With all of this said...GO CROWN!!! I wish to take a few lines to thank you, for your expansive, eloquent, and infinitely informative comment re design. Your three paragraphs are invaluable to me. My great passion for this activity is inversely proportional to my understanding, especially with regard to the visual components. Those that know me at all are aware of my love of all things DCI, but on this forum my knowledge level is that of a 1970’s high schooler. Many in the Crown camp are labeled thin skinned or over sensitive regarding negative comments from others. While there is likely some truth to that characterization, it is definitely not in response to critiques and analysis such as yours. Other—even if they’re well meaning—commentators, simply say visual is a mess or it sucks or the designers are impaired. Take the time to provide meaningful feedback. You Sir, set the standard. Please do DCP a HUMONGOUS favor and become a regular contributor. More folks like you make this a much more hospitable place. Edited August 13, 2022 by nsxanax 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZTWright Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, nsxanax said: I wish to take a few lines to thank you, for your expansive, eloquent, and infinitely informative comment re design. Your three paragraphs are invaluable to me. My great passion for this activity is inversely proportional to my understanding, especially with regard to the visual components. Those that know me at all are aware of my love of all things DCI, but on this forum my knowledge level is that of a 1970’s high schooler. Many in the Crown camp are labeled thin skinned or over sensitive regarding negative comments from others. While there is likely some truth to that characterization, it is definitely not in response to critiques and analysis such as yours. Other—even if they’re well meaning—commentators, simply say visual is a mess or it sucks or the designers are impaired. Take the time to provide meaningful feedback. You Sir, set the standard. Please do DCP a HUMONGOUS favor and become a regular contributor. More folks like you make this a much more hospitable place. Thank you so very much! I was worried I would be met with hateful banter, particularly from fans believing I'm another Crown basher, which is the furthest from the truth. I could go on and on about the design flaws I see from a designer standpoint, but what it all comes down to is the simple fact that the performers can only perform the material they have been given to the level of the material given. I believe that's why in some captions Crown has been outperforming their substance while continuing to be dirty. This all bleeds over into GE as well. Fluidity is key not just between movements, but drill and musicality as well. If there is no cohesive thought, the design will suffer, and it's sister GE will suffer too. I, as a designer, hate that GE is essentially my caption to win or lose, because it should be about the performance on the field and how well the performers are selling the product that I provide them. Any designer will tell you that they aren't perfect and nor are their products, so I can't jump on any of the design team for the flaws in this show, but I can say that while designing the drill (unless he used paper and pen) Sacktig should have recognized the transition issues with each clicking of the play button. To me, that was just laziness on his part, which ended up failing the performers who paid thousands to march. As for the set designs, I really can't speak on what he was thinking with some of them. The last minute is a masterpiece and masterclass, but the rest of the show leaves me scratching my head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 hour ago, MikeRapp said: I was thinking about this last night after Bluecoats leapt forward with a show that brought down the house. A lot of things can be said about drill a design and props. But to me it may come down to one simple fact: If your show DEPENDS upon crowd involvement—you’d better have one hell of a show concept. Because if your show requires audience members to clap and chant phrases from the literal beginning to end, you are taking one hell of a risk. This idea simply falls flat. Because people do not participate. It’s awkward and cheesy. Crown needs to focus on what they do best and trust that. And stop pushing so much cheese and crap onto the field. Inferno. Do another one of those. Please. You and I have found agreement here, Mr. Rapp. By the way, thank you for the continued dialogue and willingness to go beyond the mostly superficial nature of this forum. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 This year's Crown show reminds me, a lot, of their "Rach Star" show. Two really good halftime shows performed by a really talented drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBaritone19 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 The more I think about it, this year seems similar to 2014. Bloo charging, crown losing ground throughout the year and BD just being unbeatable. Crown in 2014 was just too dirty. The drill was not able to be clean because of the design of the drill. The show was a crowd favorite. The brass was nails but was not able to catch BD and finished 2nd. A lot of similarities between 2022 and 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsxanax Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, ZTWright said: Thank you so very much! I was worried I would be met with hateful banter, particularly from fans believing I'm another Crown basher, which is the furthest from the truth. I could go on and on about the design flaws I see from a designer standpoint, but what it all comes down to is the simple fact that the performers can only perform the material they have been given to the level of the material given. I believe that's why in some captions Crown has been outperforming their substance while continuing to be dirty. This all bleeds over into GE as well. Fluidity is key not just between movements, but drill and musicality as well. If there is no cohesive thought, the design will suffer, and it's sister GE will suffer too. I, as a designer, hate that GE is essentially my caption to win or lose, because it should be about the performance on the field and how well the performers are selling the product that I provide them. Any designer will tell you that they aren't perfect and nor are their products, so I can't jump on any of the design team for the flaws in this show, but I can say that while designing the drill (unless he used paper and pen) Sacktig should have recognized the transition issues with each clicking of the play button. To me, that was just laziness on his part, which ended up failing the performers who paid thousands to march. As for the set designs, I really can't speak on what he was thinking with some of them. The last minute is a masterpiece and masterclass, but the rest of the show leaves me scratching my head. You are my new best friend, re the marching arts. Should you ever have an observation that you fear might be construed as a bit bombastic or overly critical, don’t hesitate to DM me. My seasonal, CrownLAND compatriots provide me nearly as much entertainment and pleasure as the activity itself, which brings us together and provides the glue for those bonds. If we can learn something along the way, all the better… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBaritone19 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I also remember at a 2020 camp that the design team was drawing off of the fact that the crowd in 2019 was electric and they wanted the crowd to be a part of the show. Simple as that. I do think they tried a bit too hard, but some of the original stuff definitely wouldn’t have worked with the crowd. I am still very happy with the season. It’s a not a failure to not win. It’s difficult to win a season of DCI. It’s not easy to win brass either, but Crown makes it seem easy because they are just that good. Super proud of the kids and staff this year. Not one of those kids looks like they are having a bad time or that they think the design team failed them 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, TigerBaritone19 said: The more I think about it, this year seems similar to 2014. Bloo charging, crown losing ground throughout the year and BD just being unbeatable. Crown in 2014 was just too dirty. The drill was not able to be clean because of the design of the drill. The show was a crowd favorite. The brass was nails but was not able to catch BD and finished 2nd. A lot of similarities between 2022 and 2014 You forgot to mention a percussion line that stunk in 2014. They need better percussion scores than the get from year to year to compete for championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsxanax Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, nsxanax said: You are my new best friend, re the marching arts. TB19, K, InCOG, CBD, BWISE, NewsEd [and forgive for any I might have missed], you’re not simply friends: you’re CrownFAMILY. Like it or not… 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsxanax Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, Drum Corps Is Now a Bust said: You forgot to mention a percussion line that stunk in 2014. They need better percussion scores than the get from year to year to compete for championships. True dat. The Einstein brass of ‘13 may very well be a once in a generation type group. Can’t always count on that caption to carry the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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