Carolina Crown 2022

[ZTWright]

Long time reader, first time poster. 

From a design standpoint, and as someone with a background in design, the glaring issue I find is visual. Sacktig is one of my favorites, and when he's on it he knocks it out of the park, but he has had some flops and I believe this year is one of his flops. There are forms that collapse in transitions causing the members to almost hit elbows, which is causing a big portion of the VA issues as well as GE. There are also forms that truly don't make sense, i.e. the hit form in the opener. 

I also think that the main issue is the performers have grown tired and the show has gotten stale. The design team threw everything out from week one, and nothing major has changed. From a performer standpoint, we all grow tired of the mundane, and that's what has happened here. No major changes, only miniscule changes, and the performances have suffered due to lack of challenging changes to keep the performers on their toes. 

With that said, I still love the show, but it is one I will be listening to for years to come instead of watching. The visual package has left much to be desired. The design team is onto something, but they need to focus on one idea rather than 5 different ideas for one show.

With all of this said...GO CROWN!!!

[BWise]

53 minutes ago, MBo1974 said:

I love Crown and the entertainment value, but I think it needs to be said ... there were sections of the design that needed a rework and or major clean from the beginning that never came.  This show had the potential to challenge for 2nd (the judges aren't going to let anyone but BD win), but fans of Crown can't complain when the apparent issues in design persist.

Totally agree here .. as my friend I365 says .. transitions and folds into interval problems. Absolutely should have been fixed. 
I’m kinda at an existential moment with Drum Corps. The judging panels and individuals just have to change more frequently  or maybe it’s the sheets and handbook .. but there seems to be less and less room for variety in the highly competitive shows. Take BAC … big sweeping show … carried a lot by guard granted .. but you get down to finals ..  they pull down great GE and they get rung out in music (which they have not all season) .. and they had to make it a tie or LOS would be burning to the ground. Might be wrong but if no one bombs they drop to 3rd. The reward box is getting so small and prescriptive .. the manual should just say get it as close to BDs as possible. Which is a shame. No diss on Devils they perform to win. But they don’t decide who or what wins. While very different stylistically Bloo has figured out this formula too .. and then you get oddball years like Babylon .. it’s really limits what corps can put on the field if they want to win. 

[BWise]

16 minutes ago, ZTWright said:

Long time reader, first time poster. 

From a design standpoint, and as someone with a background in design, the glaring issue I find is visual. Sacktig is one of my favorites, and when he's on it he knocks it out of the park, but he has had some flops and I believe this year is one of his flops. There are forms that collapse in transitions causing the members to almost hit elbows, which is causing a big portion of the VA issues as well as GE. There are also forms that truly don't make sense, i.e. the hit form in the opener. 

I also think that the main issue is the performers have grown tired and the show has gotten stale. The design team threw everything out from week one, and nothing major has changed. From a performer standpoint, we all grow tired of the mundane, and that's what has happened here. No major changes, only miniscule changes, and the performances have suffered due to lack of challenging changes to keep the performers on their toes. 

With that said, I still love the show, but it is one I will be listening to for years to come instead of watching. The visual package has left much to be desired. The design team is onto something, but they need to focus on one idea rather than 5 different ideas for one show.

With all of this said...GO CROWN!!!

This ^^^^ which I said less eloquently in my post above. 
and if you get close to the kids they are tired and I think kinda over it and out of steam that started settling in during the Texas shows and heat

But let’s go Crown .. one more run. !!  
Get it !!

[MikeRapp]

I was thinking about this last night after Bluecoats leapt forward with a show that brought down the house. A lot of things can be said about drill a design and props. But to me it may come down to one simple fact:

If your show DEPENDS upon crowd involvement—you’d better have one hell of a show concept. Because if your show requires audience members to clap and chant phrases from the literal beginning to end, you are taking one hell of a risk. This idea simply falls flat. Because people do not participate. It’s awkward and cheesy.

Crown needs to focus on what they do best and trust that. And stop pushing so much cheese and crap onto the field.

Inferno. Do another one of those. Please.

Edited August 13, 2022 by MikeRapp

[Nicholas DeNofa]

Why is Crown scoring poorly in GE?

[ZTWright]

13 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

I was thinking about this last night after Bluecoats leapt forward with a show that brought down the house. A lot of things can be said about drill a design and props. But to me it may come down to one simple fact:

If your show DEPENDS upon crowd involvement—you’d better have one hell of a show concept. Because if your show requires audience members to clap and chant phrases from the literal beginning to end, you are taking one hell of a risk. This idea simply falls flat. Because people do not participate. It’s awkward and cheesy.

Crown needs to focus on what they do best and trust that. And stop pushing so much cheese and crap onto the field.

Cheese "and crap" can work, but the audience and judges have to buy into it. The problem with that is, Crown isn't the favorite anymore. Crown has had plenty of cheese "and crap" over the years. They just happened to go full Wisconsin this year, a year when most are going super dark or psychedelic. There isn't a problem in that, but you need to go about it the right way. The show feels thrown together compared to the last show they had Crowd participation in, 2011. Rach Star had Crowd participation, but the crowd bought into it. It had it's dark theatrics and themes, but was overall an enjoyable, fan favorite, and accessible show. 

There also appears to be a problem with over designing. After hearing that they would transition the planned 2020 (then 2021) show over to 2022 I thought "okay, so they will basically have 2 years to perfect this show! This could really play out to be a well thought-out program!" given that they had double the planning time. It seems that was wrong on my part, as too much time with the same program in the hands of these designers possibly lost its original thought and became 5 separate thoughts throughout the movements of the program.

Crown will always be my personal favorite, as when I design shows I typically lean towards the thought "how would Crown go about this", but this year is definitely a year I won't be looking at for design inspiration.

[nsxanax]

3 hours ago, ZTWright said:

Long time reader, first time poster. 

From a design standpoint, and as someone with a background in design, the glaring issue I find is visual. Sacktig is one of my favorites, and when he's on it he knocks it out of the park, but he has had some flops and I believe this year is one of his flops. There are forms that collapse in transitions causing the members to almost hit elbows, which is causing a big portion of the VA issues as well as GE. There are also forms that truly don't make sense, i.e. the hit form in the opener. 

I also think that the main issue is the performers have grown tired and the show has gotten stale. The design team threw everything out from week one, and nothing major has changed. From a performer standpoint, we all grow tired of the mundane, and that's what has happened here. No major changes, only miniscule changes, and the performances have suffered due to lack of challenging changes to keep the performers on their toes. 

With that said, I still love the show, but it is one I will be listening to for years to come instead of watching. The visual package has left much to be desired. The design team is onto something, but they need to focus on one idea rather than 5 different ideas for one show.

With all of this said...GO CROWN!!!

I wish to take a few lines to thank you, for your expansive, eloquent, and infinitely informative comment re design. Your three paragraphs are invaluable to me. My great passion for this activity is inversely proportional to my understanding, especially with regard to the visual components. Those that know me at all are aware of my love of all things DCI, but on this forum my knowledge level is that of a 1970’s high schooler.

Many in the Crown camp are labeled thin skinned or over sensitive regarding negative comments from others. While there is likely some truth to that characterization, it is definitely not in response to critiques and analysis such as yours. Other—even if they’re well meaning—commentators, simply say visual is a mess or it sucks or the designers are impaired. Take the time to provide meaningful feedback. You Sir, set the standard.

Please do DCP a HUMONGOUS favor and become a regular contributor. More folks like you make this a much more hospitable place.

Edited August 13, 2022 by nsxanax

[ZTWright]

8 minutes ago, nsxanax said:

I wish to take a few lines to thank you, for your expansive, eloquent, and infinitely informative comment re design. Your three paragraphs are invaluable to me. My great passion for this activity is inversely proportional to my understanding, especially with regard to the visual components. Those that know me at all are aware of my love of all things DCI, but on this forum my knowledge level is that of a 1970’s high schooler.

Many in the Crown camp are labeled thin skinned or over sensitive regarding negative comments from others. While there is likely some truth to that characterization, it is definitely not in response to critiques and analysis such as yours. Other—even if they’re well meaning—commentators, simply say visual is a mess or it sucks or the designers are impaired. Take the time to provide meaningful feedback. You Sir, set the standard.

Please do DCP a HUMONGOUS favor and become a regular contributor. More folks like you make this a much more hospitable place.

Thank you so very much! I was worried I would be met with hateful banter, particularly from fans believing I'm another Crown basher, which is the furthest from the truth. 

I could go on and on about the design flaws I see from a designer standpoint, but what it all comes down to is the simple fact that the performers can only perform the material they have been given to the level of the material given. I believe that's why in some captions Crown has been outperforming their substance while continuing to be dirty. This all bleeds over into GE as well. Fluidity is key not just between movements, but drill and musicality as well. If there is no cohesive thought, the design will suffer, and it's sister GE will suffer too. I, as a designer, hate that GE is essentially my caption to win or lose, because it should be about the performance on the field and how well the performers are selling the product that I provide them.

Any designer will tell you that they aren't perfect and nor are their products, so I can't jump on any of the design team for the flaws in this show, but I can say that while designing the drill (unless he used paper and pen) Sacktig should have recognized the transition issues with each clicking of the play button. To me, that was just laziness on his part, which ended up failing the performers who paid thousands to march. As for the set designs, I really can't speak on what he was thinking with some of them. The last minute is a masterpiece and masterclass, but the rest of the show leaves me scratching my head.

[Drum Corps Is Now a Bust]

1 hour ago, MikeRapp said:

I was thinking about this last night after Bluecoats leapt forward with a show that brought down the house. A lot of things can be said about drill a design and props. But to me it may come down to one simple fact:

If your show DEPENDS upon crowd involvement—you’d better have one hell of a show concept. Because if your show requires audience members to clap and chant phrases from the literal beginning to end, you are taking one hell of a risk. This idea simply falls flat. Because people do not participate. It’s awkward and cheesy.

Crown needs to focus on what they do best and trust that. And stop pushing so much cheese and crap onto the field.

Inferno. Do another one of those. Please.

You and I have found agreement here, Mr. Rapp. By the way, thank you for the continued dialogue and willingness to go beyond the mostly superficial nature of this forum.

[corps8294]

This year's Crown show reminds me, a lot, of their "Rach Star" show. Two really good halftime shows performed by a really talented drum corps.