Crossmen changing logo

[Continental]

49 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

I wonder of these cats in 1981 thought "What the &$^$%^@?? REALLY?? NOW they change the rule???"

Now back to topic. I get how people can "confuse" the logo and associate it with something offensive. As has been stated, the Maltese Cross was around LONG before the Nazi party was formed in 1920. The Nazi's appropriated it and by their association tuned it into something which represents evil. I think because of that association and the tendency today to have some weird urge to be offended about something at all times, it's time to change it. 

I hate this whole thing. I really do. People can be offended about anything now. I walk on egg shells for 9 hours a day in my classroom because you never know when something will be said in a class and you will get pulled into a "meeting" and be written up (or worse) for something that someone else said because it happened in YOUR classroom. 

/rant terminated

At a prior job, one day it was the birthday of someone in our department.  V was the youngest and newest member.  She was talking to one of the admin assistants so when I walked by I said "Happy Birthday V - you don't look a day over 20!" (she was around 27 at the time).   She snapped back "So does that make you better than me?"  I stood there shocked, wondering how what I said was offensive and replied "I'm 40 years old, I wish I was younger."  She then replies angrily "So being 40 years old makes you better than me?"  It was one of those moments where you just start to backup and leave the situation.  

I went back to my desk and was really bothered that what I meant as a complement was taking so negatively.  I thought about it for a few hours and then decided to ask my Manager for her opinion on what I said.

V had already been to see my Manager that morning to complain about what I said.  My Manager said that V had a real inferiority issue with being the youngest and newest in the department. 

I just shook my head and decided to keep my distance from V from that moment.  

You know how news travels quickly in a small group .... that afternoon another colleague came up to me and said she was upset about what I said to V.  Her comment "How come you never tell me I don't look a day over 20?"

Edited October 16, 2021 by Continental

[Weaklefthand4ever]

30 minutes ago, Continental said:

At a prior job, one day it was the birthday of someone in our department.  V was the youngest and newest member.  She was talking to one of the admin assistants so when I walked by I said "Happy Birthday V - you don't look a day over 20!" (she was around 27 at the time).   She snapped back "So does that make you better than me?"  I stood there shocked, wondering how what I said was offensive and replied "I'm 40 years old, I wish I was younger."  She then replies angrily "So being 40 years old makes you better than me?"  It was one of those moments where you just start to backup and leave the situation.  

I went back to my desk and was really bothered that what I meant as a complement was taking so negatively.  I thought about it for a few hours and then decided to ask my Manager for her opinion on what I said.

V had already been to see my Manager that morning to complain about what I said.  My Manager said that V had a real inferiority issue with being the youngest and newest in the department. 

I just shook my head and decided to keep my distance from V from that moment.  

You know how news travels quickly in a small group .... that afternoon another colleague came up to me and said she was upset about what I said to V.  Her comment "How come you never tell me I don't look a day over 20?"

I walk every single trainer that I manage through classroom management, how to shut conversations down and what to listen for. In a virtual setting, you have to also consider what is going on in the chats. I actually had to do a write up for an agent a few weeks ago about something that was said in a chat. It's a shame. The people who seem to be the most offended seem to often be the ones who offend the most. And these are supposed to be adults....so....

Context apparently has lost it's meaning and it's generally easier to simply be ever vigilant and consider every word and action and how it impacts every person in a setting than it is to explain those contextual clues. The concept of "know your audience" is more important today than ever. 

[JimF-LowBari]

55 minutes ago, Continental said:

At a prior job, one day it was the birthday of someone in our department.  V was the youngest and newest member.  She was talking to one of the admin assistants so when I walked by I said "Happy Birthday V - you don't look a day over 20!" (she was around 27 at the time).   She snapped back "So does that make you better than me?"  I stood there shocked, wondering how what I said was offensive and replied "I'm 40 years old, I wish I was younger."  She then replies angrily "So being 40 years old makes you better than me?"  It was one of those moments where you just start to backup and leave the situation.  

I went back to my desk and was really bothered that what I meant as a complement was taking so negatively.  I thought about it for a few hours and then decided to ask my Manager for her opinion on what I said.

V had already been to see my Manager that morning to complain about what I said.  My Manager said that V had a real inferiority issue with being the youngest and newest in the department. 

I just shook my head and decided to keep my distance from V from that moment.  

You know how news travels quickly in a small group .... that afternoon another colleague came up to me and said she was upset about what I said to V.  Her comment "How come you never tell me I don't look a day over 20?"

 Before I retired from IT I was the only male over 60 and had some newer hires in their 20s. Annnd let’s throw in I’m white and some of the newer hires were minorities. Got some hairy eyeballs when I would go up to them to ask anything. Problem was I needed to ask a lot of questions due to my job in the group. Took a while to gain their trust (except for the one guy and not sure what the issue was). Think it helped that I would throw in a compliment when I talked to them “glad you understand it, gonna take me a while so I’ll probably be back bugging you later”. 😁

Kicker was the huge hug I got from the one young Nigerian immigrant who was Muslim (and knew her stuff) when she left. Her hubby was in the Army and was transferred. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by JimF-LowBari

[Continental]

47 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

I walk every single trainer that I manage through classroom management, how to shut conversations down and what to listen for. In a virtual setting, you have to also consider what is going on in the chats. I actually had to do a write up for an agent a few weeks ago about something that was said in a chat. It's a shame. The people who seem to be the most offended seem to often be the ones who offend the most. And these are supposed to be adults....so....

Context apparently has lost it's meaning and it's generally easier to simply be ever vigilant and consider every word and action and how it impacts every person in a setting than it is to explain those contextual clues. The concept of "know your audience" is more important today than ever. 

The incident I wrote about occurred 18 years ago.  To this day it comes back to me when I am in conversations with people/groups.  I will say this...it is sometimes exhausting to have to be conscious of every word that comes out of your mouth.

[Brian Tuma]

2 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

I wonder of these cats in 1981 thought "What the &$^$%^@?? REALLY?? NOW they change the rule???"

Now back to topic. I get how people can "confuse" the logo and associate it with something offensive. As has been stated, the Maltese Cross was around LONG before the Nazi party was formed in 1920. The Nazi's appropriated it and by their association tuned it into something which represents evil. I think because of that association and the tendency today to have some weird urge to be offended about something at all times, it's time to change it. 

I hate this whole thing. I really do. People can be offended about anything now. I walk on egg shells for 9 hours a day in my classroom because you never know when something will be said in a class and you will get pulled into a "meeting" and be written up (or worse) for something that someone else said because it happened in YOUR classroom. 

/rant terminated

I’m not saying the symbolism is equivalent but the swastika was also around long before the nazi party. 

[Weaklefthand4ever]

34 minutes ago, Brian Tuma said:

I’m not saying the symbolism is equivalent but the swastika was also around long before the nazi party. 

Agreed. And I think some groups are able to use the symbols in the way that is culturally appropriate and explain it's meaning in context. Some people will get it and some people won't. What I have noticed is that it's usually not the people who would have the most cause to be offended who actually ARE offended....it's typically people on the outside looking in. There is NOTHING wrong with standing for something. Nothing at all. I just wish that people would consider context before making a decision to be offended. 

[Brian Tuma]

3 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

Agreed. And I think some groups are able to use the symbols in the way that is culturally appropriate and explain it's meaning in context. Some people will get it and some people won't. What I have noticed is that it's usually not the people who would have the most cause to be offended who actually ARE offended....it's typically people on the outside looking in. There is NOTHING wrong with standing for something. Nothing at all. I just wish that people would consider context before making a decision to be offended. 

What’s the context for Crossmen using the Maltese cross? Were they associated with the nation of Malta in some way? I’ve always associated it with a local biker “club” from my youth who thought they were bad*** lol

[JimF-LowBari]

1 hour ago, Brian Tuma said:

What’s the context for Crossmen using the Maltese cross? Were they associated with the nation of Malta in some way? I’ve always associated it with a local biker “club” from my youth who thought they were bad*** lol

And the irony is the “Cross” in Crossmen comes from John Cross American Legion Post in Norwood which was sponsor to one of the corps that merged to form Crossmen. So no religious meaning to the name.

Added irony is Texas is a loooong way from Norwood

Edited October 16, 2021 by JimF-LowBari

[Weaklefthand4ever]

4 hours ago, Brian Tuma said:

What’s the context for Crossmen using the Maltese cross? Were they associated with the nation of Malta in some way? I’ve always associated it with a local biker “club” from my youth who thought they were bad*** lol

Excellent question and one that can only be answered by the corps. My point is that without context, I personally don't judge this circumstance. If that's me being naive, then that's ok. I'll formulate a more solid opinion once I have some data I can chew on.

I think it would be an interesting conversation if someone has the background though. I personally don't have a dog in this fight and it's an interesting off season topic.

[keystone3ply]

I found this video interesting.  No clue if true, false, etc...

(Nice computerized voice over.  Could be used in a corps production? 😁)

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by keystone3ply
cx