Possible fiscal help for New Jersey drum corps??

[Bob984]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:04 PM, JimF-LowBari said:

So if a corps can have bingo, games of chance, etc…. Can they have smoking in the building? No smoking laws killed a lot around me as lot of smokers felt that was about the last place they could go to be social and still light up. No smoking so… why go.

Having worked corps bingo in the “light em up” days. 🤮 Two degrees out and leave coat in the car so it wouldn’t smell like a cig. Then drive home with windows down cuz can’t stand yourself. 😫 And on some nights could barely see other end of building and it wasn’t that big

In NJ it will be interesting.  Only "cigar bars", and the AC Casinos, are allowed to have smoking currently....and the AC casinos are limited to 25% of the floor space.  When they took away smoking from horse racing establishments, people said that would kill it.....they were wrong.....whereas some smokers stopped going, the appeal to now go to non-smokers balanced it out.  Also, smokers can go to the outside areas to smoke at the race track there still.  

   I'm asthmatic (have been all my life), so I have no problem with smoking laws......I also worked as a pro musician, and had many a bad night from 2nd hand smoke (and I now have  reduced lung function as well).  I also watched my grandfather (who had smoked heavily) die of lung cancer when I was 12.  If I was an establishment, I think I would focus on having some good yet easy "comfort foods" available at the very least, and would do all that I could to make it a good time for patrons, and make them want to come back.  A weekly raffle might also add to things.   I am not sure about liquor.....I doubt that they will be allowed, and if they are, liquor licenses are incredibly expensive and most likely going to be out of reach for unestablished places.  I can tell you that there are people who do not go to AC (or Vegas) because of smoking still happening in the casinos.....advertising as a non-smoking venue may actually attract some who like to play but do not like being around any smoke.........

 

[rpbobcat]

2 minutes ago, Bob984 said:

In NJ it will be interesting.  Only "cigar bars", and the AC Casinos, are allowed to have smoking currently....and the AC casinos are limited to 25% of the floor space.  When they took away smoking from horse racing establishments, people said that would kill it.....they were wrong.....whereas some smokers stopped going, the appeal to now go to non-smokers balanced it out.  Also, smokers can go to the outside areas to smoke at the race track there still.  

   I'm asthmatic (have been all my life), so I have no problem with smoking laws......I also worked as a pro musician, and had many a bad night from 2nd hand smoke (and I now have  reduced lung function as well).  I also watched my grandfather (who had smoked heavily) die of lung cancer when I was 12.  If I was an establishment, I think I would focus on having some good yet easy "comfort foods" available at the very least, and would do all that I could to make it a good time for patrons, and make them want to come back.  A weekly raffle might also add to things.   I am not sure about liquor.....I doubt that they will be allowed, and if they are, liquor licenses are incredibly expensive and most likely going to be out of reach for unestablished places.  I can tell you that there are people who do not go to AC (or Vegas) because of smoking still happening in the casinos.....advertising as a non-smoking venue may actually attract some who like to play but do not like being around any smoke.........

 

When the Atlantic City Casinos reopened after  Covid, Gov. Murphy issued an Executive Order to temporarily ban smoking in them.

It was very well received.

I know a number of people who visit A/C regularly.

They said there didn't seem to be anyone who had a problem with no smoking. 

But Murphy  let the Order expire.

He never gave a reason why.

A lot of people want the ban made permanent, but, so far, nothing.

 

[KCPack]

Not sure if the laws in NJ in particular allow this: in a lot of places, the way to get around a smoking ban is to make the whole thing a private club.  While a business can't allow smoking in a public place, they often can if the place technically isn't public.  You can then make a few extra bucks charging membership fees.  Most folks won't mind this since they realize why you're doing it.

[rpbobcat]

11 minutes ago, KCPack said:

Not sure if the laws in NJ in particular allow this: in a lot of places, the way to get around a smoking ban is to make the whole thing a private club.  While a business can't allow smoking in a public place, they often can if the place technically isn't public.  You can then make a few extra bucks charging membership fees.  Most folks won't mind this since they realize why you're doing it.

Probably not worth the effort.

There's been a big drop off in smoking in general, at least in the part of North Jersey where I live.

You used to always see a few smokers outside restaurants and office buildings.

Now they are few and far between.

Pretty much all of the "smoke shops"  and most of the cigar bars have closed too.

[NebraskaGBR]

Regarding Bingo ... the Amendment in New Jersey ... It is a "nice" idea ... however ...

Regarding Bingo's competition ... The trend is not just Casino gambling, but "Online" gambling.  How many of us have seen the "Caesar's" commercials? ... Of course there's an APP for your cell so you can gamble on any sports event on any day & time from the comfort of your home.   The other "advantage" of online gambling ... Interstate Commerce ... Caesar's is available in 12 States + they own a Casino in Atlantic City.

Side note: Yesterday, Mon. Nov. 8th New York State picked nine (9) operators for mobile sports betting.  The State expects to reap $500 million annually in "Tax" revenue.   Mobile sports betting Operators are "required" to turn over 51% of their profits to the State ... and still they are extremely interested.  While it may be only November ... the Operators are reportedly already "targeting" ... next February's Super Bowl. 

This is the "type" of competition ... Bingo operators are up against.

 

BTW.   How many Corps have Bingo operations or "Games of Chance"?   What's their OPPLAN (Operation's Plan ... Strategic?  Immediate (day-to-day)?    What's their take?   ... Profit margin?    What happens next summer when the Corps is on the Road?

[Weaklefthand4ever]

13 hours ago, Bob984 said:

In NJ it will be interesting.  Only "cigar bars", and the AC Casinos, are allowed to have smoking currently....and the AC casinos are limited to 25% of the floor space.  When they took away smoking from horse racing establishments, people said that would kill it.....they were wrong.....whereas some smokers stopped going, the appeal to now go to non-smokers balanced it out.  Also, smokers can go to the outside areas to smoke at the race track there still. 

See I don't mind that solution at all, and I'm a smoker. I grew up in pool halls in the early 80's through today. The ways that the laws work here is that you have to have a designated side of the room with some pretty hefty ventilation and there are size requirements. if I had to go outside that would be problematic only because although my equipment is very recognizable (I make cues after all,) I wouldn't want to leave 3K of kit laying on a pool table in a huge establishment full of college kids. 

I would think that smokers could go outside with bingo. My question is, did bingo halls generally allow drinking? Bingo is pretty much non-existent in the south as a revenue generator for corps and to my knowledge, it has never served as a money maker for corps here. NE and West I always heard were big on it.

[Tenoris4Jazz]

17 hours ago, NebraskaGBR said:

Regarding Bingo ... the Amendment in New Jersey ... It is a "nice" idea ... however ...

Regarding Bingo's competition ... The trend is not just Casino gambling, but "Online" gambling.  How many of us have seen the "Caesar's" commercials? ... Of course there's an APP for your cell so you can gamble on any sports event on any day & time from the comfort of your home.   The other "advantage" of online gambling ... Interstate Commerce ... Caesar's is available in 12 States + they own a Casino in Atlantic City.

Side note: Yesterday, Mon. Nov. 8th New York State picked nine (9) operators for mobile sports betting.  The State expects to reap $500 million annually in "Tax" revenue.   Mobile sports betting Operators are "required" to turn over 51% of their profits to the State ... and still they are extremely interested.  While it may be only November ... the Operators are reportedly already "targeting" ... next February's Super Bowl. 

This is the "type" of competition ... Bingo operators are up against.

 

BTW.   How many Corps have Bingo operations or "Games of Chance"?   What's their OPPLAN (Operation's Plan ... Strategic?  Immediate (day-to-day)?    What's their take?   ... Profit margin?    What happens next summer when the Corps is on the Road?

Reading the IRS forms for most of the finalists, Blue Devils and Vanguard have a heavy bingo interest.  In 2019, BD had gaming revenues of $30.7 million and a net profit of $1.88 million from gaming.  Vanguard was $10.97 million in revenue and $3.78 million in net profit.  Bluecoats was $3 million in revenue and $400k in net profit.

By comparison, Spirit of Atlanta most recently showed total revenue of $917k from ALL operations.  If Vanguard ONLY made money from bingo (no tour income, no tuition income, nothing else) their budget would be 4 times what Spirit makes.

[Weaklefthand4ever]

8 hours ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:

Reading the IRS forms for most of the finalists, Blue Devils and Vanguard have a heavy bingo interest.  In 2019, BD had gaming revenues of $30.7 million and a net profit of $1.88 million from gaming.  Vanguard was $10.97 million in revenue and $3.78 million in net profit.  Bluecoats was $3 million in revenue and $400k in net profit.

By comparison, Spirit of Atlanta most recently showed total revenue of $917k from ALL operations.  If Vanguard ONLY made money from bingo (no tour income, no tuition income, nothing else) their budget would be 4 times what Spirit makes.

Atlanta might not actually be the best place for Bingo. The bingo laws in Georgia appear to be pretty stringent including the maximum prize allotments. 

[Tenoris4Jazz]

2 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

Atlanta might not actually be the best place for Bingo. The bingo laws in Georgia appear to be pretty stringent including the maximum prize allotments. 

Oh, I know.  I live here.  They have been "talking" about a casino in downtown Atlanta for at least 10 years.  It ain't happening.

I was mainly showing the huge benefits of having access to bingo revenue.  If the Devils could control their expenses better, they could net $5 million a year just from bingo.

[Bob984]

On 11/9/2021 at 8:33 PM, Weaklefthand4ever said:

See I don't mind that solution at all, and I'm a smoker. I grew up in pool halls in the early 80's through today. The ways that the laws work here is that you have to have a designated side of the room with some pretty hefty ventilation and there are size requirements. if I had to go outside that would be problematic only because although my equipment is very recognizable (I make cues after all,) I wouldn't want to leave 3K of kit laying on a pool table in a huge establishment full of college kids. 

I would think that smokers could go outside with bingo. My question is, did bingo halls generally allow drinking? Bingo is pretty much non-existent in the south as a revenue generator for corps and to my knowledge, it has never served as a money maker for corps here. NE and West I always heard were big on it.

Without naming names, I can tell you that some  corps in neighboring NY state ran hugely profitable bingo operations.  However, there were some problems (that I will not go into here) which ended up hurting them badly, because it was their primary income source, and then suddenly gone.  Still, as you see later in the responses, there are some major corps who run HUGE bingo operations.  Bingo did happen, at a lower level, for corps in NJ.......but the corps gave up when the State made it far more difficult and far less profitable.  This does look like an olive branch by the state in lifting things and making it possible.....for drum corps and other non-profits......to perhaps make it work.......

   I am pretty sure that drinking was allowed in NY State (not certain, though).  It's a moot point, even if allowed, as the cost of a liquor license in NJ is staggering.......I don't think that it would take liquor, smoking, etc......to run a successful operation.....just a fun place that people would come back to on a regular basis............and can generate some income for corps............