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Phantom Regiment troubles?..


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5 hours ago, keystone3ply said:

 

Shirley in the year 2022 the corps have adopted safety training & rules governing the use of props for all students, staff, & volunteers.  (And don't call me "Shirley"; see video.) :spitting:

I know there are policies in place for broadway tours, concert tours, & the traveling "carnivals".    

 

FWIW - Some corps utilize the same set/scenic designers that do this work on Broadway/opera and national touring shows. Those same corps also utilize fabricators and engineers for construction from this same industry. Those corps also have prop-focused operations staff that are responsible for safety. inspection, handling and maintenance of said props. They treat their tour as responsible as any professional touring entertainment organization would. 

 

The key word here is *some*. Adopting some rules and guidelines in this area across the activity is a good idea.

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Start with an easy one- the tarps. Seeing that poor Blue Stars snare drummer trip and fall (and thankfully recover without missing a beat) at Indy scared the daylights out of me. Hard to believe that hasn't happened more often. 

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9 minutes ago, OldSnareDrummer said:

Start with an easy one- the tarps. Seeing that poor Blue Stars snare drummer trip and fall (and thankfully recover without missing a beat) at Indy scared the daylights out of me. Hard to believe that hasn't happened more often. 

I'd start with vertical issues before someone gets killed.

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30 minutes ago, OldSnareDrummer said:

Start with an easy one- the tarps. Seeing that poor Blue Stars snare drummer trip and fall (and thankfully recover without missing a beat) at Indy scared the daylights out of me. Hard to believe that hasn't happened more often. 

I hate tarps.

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3 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

I'd start with vertical issues before someone gets killed.

Have all members sign a release of liability. Start with the ColoGuard! 

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On 12/17/2021 at 8:51 AM, IllianaLancerContra said:

Well, this seems to have evolved into a props discussion so I will add my $0.02.

I have a relative who is a civil engineer in the Los Angeles area.  He mainly designs gas stations, but also has the credentials to certify if a building is safe or not post-earthquake.  He rakes in big bucks after every earthquake.  And pays a lot for insurance to cover him in case of mistake (but no mistakes so far).

Anyway, my point is that if a Corps (or DCI) want professional engineering certification for props, they will need to pay for this service.  And this will cost $$.  Same with insurance.  This needs to be weighed against potential civil (& possibly criminal in some cases) liability if a member is injured (or worse) due to a prop accident.  Just because an accident has not yet occurred shouldn't lull the activity into a sense of complacency.  

And to that point, all it will take is ONE critical accident to drive home a sense of urgency. What is happening with some props on the field is the very definition of complacency. Vertical staging brings inherent risk. I am not so old and crusty to say "It isn't real drum corps anyway so get rid of it." What I AM saying is that if you are going to do it, be proactive and make it safe to transport, place and use. 

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22 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

With my above average sarcasm level dealing with stupidity this brings up a few flashbacks… and a few people who quit talking to me.

”We’ve been doing it this way for years and nothing has happened”

Me: “Yet..”

I sat in a meeting the other day Jim that you really would have appreciated. I pointed out a significant flaw in a clients "master plan" for a site with about 700 agents involving cutting customer data over to a new system. No training, no warning, no nothin'. I asked why we would, in ANY conceivable universe do something like that. Their response was "It's always worked for us in the past."

I politely (shocking to Britt at the time,) stated that we cannot afford to "Do things the way that we have always done because that's the way it has always been done." 

Even more shockingly, they saw my point (after I presented evidence that what they done was creating errors and generating more calls into the call centers thereby driving up costs,) and pulled back some of the change overs. 

I would to think that a few lawsuits over member safety would be what it would take to drive a message home. 

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19 hours ago, Poppycock said:

Have all members sign a release of liability. Start with the ColoGuard! 

A release of liability may not be the best way to go.  For members under age of 18, the parents/guardians would need to sign.  How many would sign it after reading?  It is not the best look to say 'sign here that you release us from liability if your kid gets injured or killed by our props'.  

And even if the member signs, if there is a serious injury or a death it will be investigated by police in the jurisdiction the accident occurs in (see PR bus accident several years ago - was investigated by AZ police).  It is possible that some sort of criminal negligence charges could be the result.  The Corps and/or DCI's legal bill could add up quickly.  Do the Corps / DCI have a contingency fund set aside for this?  

And lawyers will tell you that even with a liability release legal action can result - once again, legal fees can accumulate quickly, and even if the Corps / DCI prevail the lawyers will still send a bill.

So, will liability insurance cover this?  Perhaps, to a point.  But insurance policies usually state that they won't cover losses to to negligence on the part of the insured.  

 

Edited by IllianaLancerContra
more better english
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25 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

A release of liability may not be the best way to go.  For members under age of 18, the parents/guardians would need to sign.  How many would sign it after reading?  It is not the best look to say 'sign here that you release us from liability if your kid gets injured or killed by our props'.  

So, will liability insurance cover this?  Perhaps, to a point.  But insurance policies usually state that they won't cover losses to to negligence on the part of the insured.  

 

My thought is when you sign a waiver against suing in case of injury…. Isn’t the assumption that the things and conditions are reasonably safe. IOW running practice in a lightning storm or having members on a prop that was put together half (tailed) is not protected 

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