Sexual Assault: Spirit of Atlanta 2021

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Agree.

In another post I suggested that DCI IMHO needs to move to a model something like the NFL.  The NFL commissioner (Goodell) is empowered & paid by the owners to deal with difficult issues (recently TBI, player off-field behavior, etc) so the owners don't have to.  Individual owners may not like what he does, but they know that it needs to happen for the good, even survival, of the NFL.

The key is how it’s structured. For instance do they have power over just adults or members too when it pertains to things like this?

 

the legal wordsmithing would be epic

[NewToPosting]

13 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

All true, but staff & membership needs to actually do as they were trained for the system to work.

SoA had a handbook ('that all of them signed') but still didn't do the right thing.

This is why, at a bare minimum, the staff that didn't act on the member's complaints need to go.  And never come back.

 

I heard the audio from the full corps meeting.  I can't say I'm sure how they covered their own handbook.  It's another plus to having a standard way of distributing it.  

I've worked in Corporate America for over 15 years and this was by far the best, clearest, and most needed form of harassment training I've seen.  

Once you sign that you have taken the training, the onus is on the individual.  It's added accountability and makes it easier to dismiss the staff that don't adhere to the policies.  

The Safesport training gets brought up quite a bit in independent groups.  Even if done in a joking fashion, it's actually been an ongoing conversation that constantly reminds us of the training.  As a staff member, it is easier to understand exactly when I need to take action and what that action needs to be.  I don't think many staff members have the confidence for that right now.

 

[Jeff Ream]

51 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

Understood. But this is a once a year deal. Changing a splash screen to an individual corps logo on the first page of an elearn takes literally 15 minutes. 

The hitch in the giddyup is that it would have to be ONE training that the corps agree on. Additional specifics could be something a corps does separately in their own docs. 

The cost isn't minimal but it also isn't astronomical. Divide the cost between all member corps and that's it. They would save time writing their own branded materials.

I’m on your side. I’m just reiterating that time again the right thing and associated costs and dci don’t line up in terms of action.

 

if so this #### wouldn’t keep happening 

[Jeff Ream]

38 minutes ago, NewToPosting said:

The training that WGI offered was $17 per person.  Spirit has ~80 on staff (I counted by hand, on multiple pages).  That would have been an investment of under $1,500 for the year.  Isn't it kind of worth it to not have to deal with what they're dealing with now?  Isn't it more disruptive and costly for the members to change travel plans the weekend before a camp because schools might not want them on-premise?

It's a fraction of one member's yearly dues to ensure the safety of all and longevity of the corps.  They seem to be able to buy speakers.  Seem to be able to buy props.  $1,500.  WGI must have ~300 competitive units.  Also, many local circuits made the same requirement.  Winterguards aren't exactly rolling in the dough, either. As a percentage of operating budget, the cost was higher for guards, winds groups, and drumlines.  

Again I’m on your side. I’m just stating as we have seen time and time again, doing the right thing and the associated costs and DCI don’t work hand in hand.

 

why did no corps stick up for Pioneer for example? Easy. Pioneer wasn’t a draw, so splitting the money with one less corps meany more for the rest. 

[Jeff Ream]

16 minutes ago, keystone3ply said:

FYI: A parent has asked in the friends/family (public) group about receiving a refund ($200) for the camp scheduled for this weekend.  Another parent expressed their disbelief that they would still hold the January camp.  Both parents stated that they had both just received the SOA 'packing list" info email for the camp.  This entire event & what's about to follow is really sad.  😢 

Sadly Spirit has no one to blame but themselves.

 

this could end up like the Oregon Crusaders 

[IllianaLancerContra]

1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

The key is how it’s structured. For instance do they have power over just adults or members too when it pertains to things like this?

 

the legal wordsmithing would be epic

I don't remember the names or the specific incidents, but the NFL got involved when there was video of a player striking his wife or girlfriend in an elevator.  

And recently, Tampa Bay Bucs fired Antonio Brown after the 'shirtless game incident'.  & Jacksonville fired Urban Meyer after off-field behavior (winning only 2 games didn't help).

So yes, DCI should have power to tell Corps what to do, & if Corps doesn't than DCI should have power to do it.

[Jeff Ream]

6 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

There is a whole section of Philosophy dedicated to to this subject. Seriously.  And the philosophers have a 2,500 year head start on us delving into this subject.

 

On the other hand, a Drum Corps show titled 'Being an essentially decent human doesn't really require training, does it?' could be either wonderful or horrific depending on the approach.

See “The Conversation” the originally planned 2018 Cadets show title 

[Jeff Ream]

1 minute ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

I don't remember the names or the specific incidents, but the NFL got involved when there was video of a player striking his wife or girlfriend in an elevator.  

And recently, Tampa Bay Bucs fired Antonio Brown after the 'shirtless game incident'.  & Jacksonville fired Urban Meyer after off-field behavior (winning only 2 games didn't help).

So yes, DCI should have power to tell Corps what to do, & if Corps doesn't than DCI should have power to do it.

Not disagreeing but I have zero faith DCIs membership would ever give one person that much control. Remember just 11 years ago a faction tried to push out Dan and restructure everything to the benefit of just 7 of them. 2 of them in 2019 weren’t even in the top 8

[Lance]

31 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

This all day.

At a certain point, an adult (or a young adult, which is what all the members are) need to instinctively know that certain behavior is requiring of action to protect themselves and others. All the training in the world wouldn't have made a corps director or tour director who was notified of repeated unwanted touches to do something if their instinct was to ignore it, which is what happened. Training shouldn't be necessary for members who see sexual acts being performed on their busses as part of a "talent show" to know that the acts were unacceptable and to step in to stop the proceedings.

Being an essentially decent human doesn't really require training, does it?

It obviously does, I'm afraid.  

The idea that all or even most orgs that work with young people will instinctually "police themselves" and put in due diligence to hire non-scum is ludicrous, unfortunately.

To be clear, training is indeed useless if there isn't a system in place to hand out real consequences for child abuse or sexual abuse AND for those who fail to report it after being trained.  Not getting fired consequences, but legal ones.  I think you'll find that reasonable people on here don't look at training as a solution in and of itself. 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Lance

[Slingerland]

18 minutes ago, Lance said:

 

The idea that all or even most orgs that work with young people will instinctually "police themselves" and put in due diligence to hire non-scum is ludicrous, unfortunately.

 

 

Not what I was saying, really. To be clear, I'll guarantee that everyone involved had training. I have enough friends who are actively engaged as Board, senior staff, ED's etc, in the activity to know that everyone has training. But if the culture of a given org is such that staff and management and members see it as something to check off on a list rather than as something to be added to their essential toolkit, it was wasted time.

I'm trying to avoid the sentiment that is boiling up out there that we, as a people, a nation, have become fundamentally indecent, but it's increasingly difficult when we see the headlines around us, the ways we're starting to act toward others, and the total lack of consequences when previously unthinkable norms have been breached. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Slingerland