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10 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Wouldn’t it be in the job security / financial interest of those in the Drum Corps business to weed out the predators who are a threat to the existence of the Drum  Corps business?

Yeah but then there is the bad publicity that a corps hired them in the first place. So that’s why so many keep moving around with no fear.

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1 hour ago, craiga said:

That's  true, but having the protocols in place is at the very least a start, and something that didn't exist at all a decade ago.

the protocols have been in place since Hopghazi if not before in some corps cases. and yet these issues still come to light. almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, and the only hand grenades here are the ones DCI and its corps are ducking due to their inaction

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3 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Wouldn’t it be in the job security / financial interest of those in the Drum Corps business to weed out the predators who are a threat to the existence of the Drum  Corps business?

Yes it would! There would be fewer  organizations participating and a few of the most prestigious organizations would be gone. Addition by subtraction for the good of the activity. 

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On 1/13/2022 at 3:25 PM, rpbobcat said:

That would be a policy that would be very easy for DCI to implement.

Require every corps to give every MM, staff member a one page flyer saying something to the effect that :

If you are, or even suspect  you may be a victim of _______  ,call 911 and report it to the police, before you notify anyone else.

This is an important point. I remember back to the Penn State Football situation with Jerry Sandusky committing absolutely gross, disgusting crimes. I don't remember all of the info, because there was a lot, but part of what I remember was that one of the grad assistants witnessed one (of the many) crimes personally. He reported that to head coach Joe Paterno...who was a legend in college football. Joe said that he then passed the info on to his A.D., who then likely did or did not inform the College President. In the end, it was all passing the info up the ladder, which usually leads to sweeping things under the carpet in order to best preserve the integrity or appearance of the program and not dealing with the criminal act and the criminal. More importantly it fails to protect those who were abused and to help them and to make sure it didn't happen again. Ultimately we saw what happened there. 

What the graduate assistant should have done was called the police and reported the crime. This way the police have to respond and take the accused in for questioning. They also question and get info from the accuser and those who were violated. Now the college has no recourse but to admit to the press what happened and deal with their incompetence and their antiquated policies. 

I remember shortly after all that broke and after Paterno had been fired, and then died, having a long talk with my college band during band camp. In short I told them that if you witness or are victim of a crime (sexual, hazing, hate, or any other type of crime) that you call the police. You do not bring the issue to me. I am not an officer of the law. You do not call campus security. You do not go to the Dean or other administrators. You call the police. 

The whole notion of a whistleblower site, while not bad, is not exactly the best way. It simply doesn't lead to justice fast enough. Having 2 or 3 squad cars show up at rehearsal or after a performance to question and/or arrest a suspect for charges brought by someone who has been sexually assaulted, hazed, victim of a hate crime, or abused in some manner, will send a message to directors, staff, volunteers, and marching members a lot faster that inappropriate actions all the way up to disgusting criminal actions come with severe consequences.  This also includes shame to the organization, and more access for the media to get the story and expose the issues. 

After reading some of the disgusting stories over the past years, including the new stories coming out, there were so many instances where people should have been arrested on the spot and taken in for questioning. DCI and all their oversight, education, and whistleblower talk and policies -- while I am sure they are well-meaning -- do not solve the problem. Alerting the police will have a greater impact. Even contacting a national investigative service such as hazingprevention.org/report-hazingFor any type of abuse the recommended procedure is as follows: 

"Call 911 immediately and tell the operator every detail you can about the abuser, the situation, and the violent acts performed, including whether or not a weapon was involved. If you're the victim, try making it to a safe crowded place and wait for the police."

I am not naïve enough to belief this solves everything, but I do feel a more direct approach needs to take place. 

Edited by jwillis35
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11 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

 I told them that if you witness or are victim of a crime (sexual, hazing, hate, or any other type of crime) that you call the police. You do not bring the issue to me. I am not an officer of the law. You do not call campus security. You do not go to the Dean or other administrators. You call the police.

You should be running DCI.  

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5 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Wouldn’t it be in the job security / financial interest of those in the Drum Corps business to weed out the predators who are a threat to the existence of the Drum  Corps business?

IMO it is becoming increasingly clear to me that if EVERYTHING in the activity comes to light that there will be no more activity. The criminals are many. And the people that are facilitating the criminals are many more. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks and all that... ya know? Would the people calling out others be confident their own houses are clean? It seems more and more unlikely that there aren't many clean houses to be found. So they think their best strategy is to hide the dirt.

And despite what the G7 might think, if the activity wakes up tomorrow with with half of the corps left, that probably isn't enough to sustain it (though a big portion of the G7 would be gone as well in this scenario). 

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3 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

This is an important point. I remember back to the Penn State Football situation with Jerry Sandusky committing absolutely gross, disgusting crimes. I don't remember all of the info, because there was a lot, but part of what I remember was that one of the grad assistants witnessed one (of the many) crimes personally. He reported that to head coach Joe Paterno...who was a legend in college football. Joe said that he then passed the info on to his A.D., who then likely did or did not inform the College President. In the end, it was all passing the info up the ladder, which usually leads to sweeping things under the carpet in order to best preserve the integrity or appearance of the program and not dealing with the criminal act and the criminal. More importantly it fails to protect those who were abused and to help them and to make sure it didn't happen again. Ultimately we saw what happened there. 

What the graduate assistant should have done was called the police and reported the crime. This way the police have to respond and take the accused in for questioning. They also question and get info from the accuser and those who were violated. Now the college has no recourse but to admit to the press what happened and deal with their incompetence and their antiquated policies. 

I remember shortly after all that broke and after Paterno had been fired, and then died, having a long talk with my college band during band camp. In short I told them that if you witness or are victim of a crime (sexual, hazing, hate, or any other type of crime) that you call the police. You do not bring the issue to me. I am not an officer of the law. You do not call campus security. You do not go to the Dean or other administrators. You call the police. 

The whole notion of a whistleblower site, while not bad, is not exactly the best way. It simply doesn't lead to justice fast enough. Having 2 or 3 squad cars show up at rehearsal or after a performance to question and/or arrest a suspect for charges brought by someone who has been sexually assaulted, hazed, victim of a hate crime, or abused in some manner, will send a message to directors, staff, volunteers, and marching members a lot faster that inappropriate actions all the way up to disgusting criminal actions come with severe consequences.  This also includes shame to the organization, and more access for the media to get the story and expose the issues. 

After reading some of the disgusting stories over the past years, including the new stories coming out, there were so many instances where people should have been arrested on the spot and taken in for questioning. DCI and all their oversight, education, and whistleblower talk and policies -- while I am sure they are well-meaning -- do not solve the problem. Alerting the police will have a greater impact. Even contacting a national investigative service such as hazingprevention.org/report-hazingFor any type of abuse the recommended procedure is as follows: 

"Call 911 immediately and tell the operator every detail you can about the abuser, the situation, and the violent acts performed, including whether or not a weapon was involved. If you're the victim, try making it to a safe crowded place and wait for the police."

I am not naïve enough to belief this solves everything, but I do feel a more direct approach needs to take place. 

Joe went to his superior. as he himself did not see it, he couldn't go to the police. went to Curley and Sr. VP Gary Schultz, who also oversaw campus police since the incident was on campus...as he legally should have. and McQueary was vague with them as well.

 

now should Joe have gone to the police? Sure. But since he didn't actually see it, if he didn't, talking to law enforcement friends, he could have opened himself up to issues if it was false.

 

thats why anyone who witnesses something or is the victim of something should go to the police. right away

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Ive been reading all the posts on this and other pages since the SoA incident was brought out publicly by the amazingly strong young woman.  Thank you for that Kenzee.  If we put all the posters whose comments and ideas on solutions I’ve read, in a room, I am certain consensus and actionable plans would be ideated and put to paper in a way that would clearly get results.  DCI would have clear p&p’s, specifically outlining steps to clean up the mess they have contributed to.  And I mean DCI org itself in Indianapolis as well as DCI member corps.  Not just the p&p’s but zero tolerance penalty applications.

Everyone at one time in one place meets, confers, trains, agrees and signs their names to it.  Then there is no hiding, dismissing, covering up or delayed inaction.

All that being said, a fire needs to be lit under the A## of DCI org in IN, specifically at the top.  It needs to begin there and quickly follow to corps leadership and their BOD’s.

who can do this? DCP’rs? Probably not, because they aren’t mm parents. At least probably not enough of us are.  People involved in DC, parents, fans, donors, supporters, who are not on DCP, may have no idea what is happening.  How could they?  If they ask a corps how things are, what do we think they are told? 
Get these folks tuned in and things will change.  They will demand it.  Start in Indy with DCI org leadership.

Demand a fix.  Not cancel culture though.  Don’t burn it down.  Do the hard work of fixing it, if it means anything to anyone.  All DCP’rs reading these threads should send a card, letter or note.  Many of each,  to every person who works in the DCI office, to every DCI judge, to every corps director and every BOD chair for each corps.  Stop talking about it here and step up.  We write about it, now let’s do it.  Let’s share names, addresses and write a note that can’t be deleted.

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13 hours ago, LabMaster said:

Demand a fix.  Not cancel culture though.  Don’t burn it down.  Do the hard work of fixing it, if it means anything to anyone.  

This, my friend, is exactly right.  

I've been thinking a lot the past week.  One of my students was SO excited to march Spirit this season, but I'm SO glad he'll not be involved with them this season.  I'm a band director.  And I find myself thinking how I would react to one of these situations happening on my band bus during a long trip.  I realized I would be 100% fine if my program was gutted of all bad actors and I was left with three or four kids if it meant that they were safe and they had a great learning experience going forward.  

Because... this activity is worth saving.  But no individual corps is sacred; corps must earn the public's trust again.  And trust takes time and hard work.  

If that means DCI goes away, fine.  If 90% of the corps fold, fine.  But the marching arts, and drum corps in particular, can be run well.  We just have to get down to business and do it.

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