Jump to content

Open letter to ALL CORPS DIRECTORS


Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, DrummerParent said:

As Illianalancercontra mentions, this training is in response to the issues and lawsuits BSA faced/faces.  Nothing wrong with learning from those who’ve been through the same problems and using the tools that they have established 

My previous church started anti child abuse procedures after the mess with the Catholic Church started. To be honest the insurance company recommended it in the interest of cost of premiums. Insurance company took lead in what to do.

Im still wondering how all these problems in DCI corps is affecting their insurance and cost$.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, DrummerParent said:

As Illianalancercontra mentions, this training is in response to the issues and lawsuits BSA faced/faces.  Nothing wrong with learning from those who’ve been through the same problems and using the tools that they have established.  Simply having the training won’t solve all the problems but the training combined with procedures and policies that are followed and enforced will significantly reduce the number of future issues.  The corps need to foster an environment of prevention first and then being swift and thorough to take appropriate actions when issues do arise.

To further pontificate - 

BSA is also a much larger organization, with far deeper pockets than DCI.  

At some point a lawsuit will happen.  Perhaps soon.  Maybe not this year, maybe not next.  But it will happen.  EquitAbility Consulting, LLC (https://equitabilityconsulting.com/), who is working for the SoA victim, is a law firm specializing in this sexual assault/harassment; the ball may already be rolling.

How much money does DCI/Corps have set aside to pay for attorneys?

Will DCI/Corps insurance cover any damages?  If there are criminal penalties I already know the answer - insurance won't cover illegal acts; simple example is that auto insurance doesn't cover speeding tickets.

If there is a civil suit, there will be depositions under oath.  Questions like 'When did you become aware that instructor X at Corps A was sexually harassing/abusing members?'  Why did you allow instructor A to work at Corps Y if you know there were allegations?'

There will also be discovery where DCI/Corps will need to turn over all relevant records.  And the records may well become public (look at clergy abuse in Catholic Church (look around this website for a while - records, spreadsheets, names, assignments, etc, etc. https://www.bishop-accountability.org/).

DCICorps don't have the resources that BSA or Catholic Church does (or did).  And BSA / Catholic Church lost in both criminal & civil cases.  Yet DCI/Corps won't excise the cancer of member abuse.  

When the legal actions begin, DCI/Corps will be squashed like a bug.  And they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Edited by IllianaLancerContra
more better english
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Im still wondering how all these problems in DCI corps is affecting their insurance and cost$.

The two I know, being BSA Explorer Posts, I believe use BSA insurance which is there reason for being BSA groups.  That insurance used to be like $2 per member but I think it’s $30-40 per member now (based on my BSA connections).

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

DCICorps don't have the resources that BSA or Catholic Church does (or did).

BSA filed bankruptcy and has mortgage their biggest asset.  They are still operational but hurting big time.  DCI would not survive at all.  
Abuses will always occur at some frequency and the answer isn’t to stop all forms of youth activity.  But the corps have a duty to implement best practices for prevention and to follow up appropriately when issues do occur.  

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, DrummerParent said:

BSA filed bankruptcy and has mortgage their biggest asset.  They are still operational but hurting big time.  DCI would not survive at all.  
Abuses will always occur at some frequency and the answer isn’t to stop all forms of youth activity.  But the corps have a duty to implement best practices for prevention and to follow up appropriately when issues do occur.  

That last line… just keep thinking that supposedly one SoA member had been doing things for a couple of years and the corps knew about it. But the corps let him come back season after season. At the very least you’d think they would hide it by not allowing him back. 🤔

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, DrummerParent said:

BSA filed bankruptcy and has mortgage their biggest asset.  They are still operational but hurting big time.  DCI would not survive at all.  
Abuses will always occur at some frequency and the answer isn’t to stop all forms of youth activity.  But the corps have a duty to implement best practices for prevention and to follow up appropriately when issues do occur.  

Assuming that the asset is Philmont?  I have a story about Philmont form a previous life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Assuming that the asset is Philmont?  I have a story about Philmont form a previous life.

Yep.  I’m not real in-the-know so I may be incorrect here.  I’ve heard that the original part of Philmont is protected by the grant/conditions from the gift that have the land to BSA.  But it sounds like they later purchased a lot more land and that part is now mortgaged.  Again, just third hand or further removed info.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

 

When the legal actions begin, DCI/Corps will be squashed like a bug.  And they will have no one to blame but themselves.

DCI, as policy currently stands, would be a reach for any civil case to tag in a significant way under circumstances like what are being discussed. On the SOA front specifically, the plaintiffs would have to show that DCI was made aware of the situation and did nothing to stop it at such a time as they could have, which the information on the part of the reporter of the incidents doesn't claim to be the case. I suspect one of the reasons why DCI's legal advisors recommend NOT having the corps required to report these cases is to maintain a layer of separation on that front.

As set up, DCI has a very limited power to interfere with the internal workings of any of their affiliated organizations. Ethically correct? Questionable. Legally sound? Yup. 

The failures being reported are very much in the purview of the individual organizations, not at the DCI level. I'm not hearing or seeing any issues related to harassment or problems going un-addressed* at Blue Devils. Same with Boston. Same with Blue Stars, Mandarins, Colts, Crown,etc. The majority of the organizations are being proactive in fostering a positive environment and culture, and seem to be succeeding in heading off problems and/or addressing them appropriately if and when something comes up.

* not that they don't have issues of individuals behaving inappropriately or bringing baggage to the tour that negatively affects others - just that they're stepping in to resolve the issues in a timely fashion, which is what would have saved SOA from the self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the face they endured.

Edited by Slingerland
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

DCI, as policy currently stands, would be a reach for any civil case to tag in a significant way under circumstances like what are being discussed. On the SOA front specifically, the plaintiffs would have to show that DCI was made aware of the situation and did nothing to stop it at such a time as they could have, which the information on the part of the reporter of the incidents doesn't claim to be the case. I suspect one of the reasons why DCI's legal advisors recommend NOT having the corps required to report these cases is to maintain a layer of separation on that front.

As set up, DCI has a very limited power to interfere with the internal workings of any of their affiliated organizations. Ethically correct? Questionable. Legally sound. Yup. 

The failures being reported are very much in the purview of the individual organizations, not at the DCI level. I'm not hearing or seeing any issues related to harassment or problems going un-addressed* at Blue Devils. Same with Boston. Same with Blue Stars, Mandarins, Colts, Crown,etc. The majority of the organizations are being proactive in fostering a positive environment and culture, and seem to be succeeding in heading off problems and/or addressing them appropriately if and when something comes up.

* not that they don't have issues of individuals behaving inappropriately or bringing baggage to the tour that negatively affects others - just that they're stepping in to resolve the issues in a timely fashion, which is what would have saved SOA from the self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the face they endured.

Agree, but DCI would need legal counsel, and easily could be called in as a witness.   And there could be discovery as well, which would have its own expense.  

It could easily turn into a ‘the process is the punishment’ situation.  Even if DCI isn’t at fault they could easily rack up thousands in legal fees.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/16/2022 at 10:28 AM, Poppycock said:

I’ve come to the conclusion the activity isn’t going to adopt or accept mandatory and enforceable violations of individuals or organizations.

IMO it’s only a matter of time before a reported incident gets brushed under the rug again that will shutdown the whole activity. National news and a family with disposable resources to hire the best legal representation will be all it will take. 

National News
You're the editor on the national desk of a newspaper. First thing, it's likely your newspaper, like every other newspaper in the land, is a husk of its former self. The newsroom is emptied out. You're operating on fumes. Are you going to send the scarcest resources you've ever had across the country to cover a story about a niche activity involving an organization no one outside of its neighborhood has heard of? To 99.99% of the country -- and probably 75% of the Bay Area -- "Blue Devis" means Duke University.

Second thing, why this incident with this musical group? What's happening there that isn't already happening (and has been covered) in Scouting, the church, sports programs, major universities, the entertainment industry, even public schools? What's new here? (Update: See, e.g., this NYT story posted Jan. 19, followed the next day by this other NYT story). Sorry to be crass about it, but assaults happen every day in many settings. What's especially "newsy" about this one? These are real questions that real editors ask.

No, unless abuse incidents in DCI are so widespread, so common, so everyday and endemic that it is an abuse category apart from all other institutions, it's hard to see how it rises to be national news. The biggest splash this story is likely to make is of the type we've already seen in the Philadelphia Inquirer -- a major metro with a corps in its own market.

 

Disposable Resources

It's entirely possible that there is a mom and a dad out there who:

  1. have a child who has been a victim of assault
  2. have the resources to pursue a civil case to its conclusion
  3. are motivated by principle only, not by the prospect of a settlement, because your average drum corps has a balance sheet that very likely amounts to less than the number of dollars you seek and will spend pursuing the case. If they were to sue, they almost certainly would do so in the knowledge that victory would not merely punish the corps in hopes of reform, but that it would sue the corps out of existence.

What are the odds that all three of these dice will roll out exactly this way? Maybe better than ever given today's litigious and wired society. But still, on the whole, very remote, it seems to me.

Could they pursue a criminal case instead? They can ask for one, but that decision will be made by the district attorney. The family's resources don't enter into the equation.

 

Edited by 2muchcoffeeman
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...