GUARDLING Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Keith Hall said: That Brian Flores suit will probably fade away. The "Archaic" system must have worked because we had hundred plus more corps in North America back then. Actually it didn't BUT if you want to compare the hundreds of corps, many non-competitive , most sponsored by groups who either ( as another poster said ) on life support or not around anymore or able to support themselves let alone the drum corps activity then one would have to compare the world of 50 years ago to today on ALL fronts. Can't be done All that aside, Drum Corps decided (the good or bad of it ) what was archaic for them and did so as corps will do the same today. Agree with it or not The corps agreed the system was archaic before 1972 , 50 years ago. IF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 If DCI went away tomorrow, Varsity would provide a new competition structure in a hot minute. The non top-6 corps wouldn't like the new terms, but they wouldn't have much choice either. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, keystone3ply said: Roger Goodell works for & answers to the NFL team owners. 🧐 'zactly. It'd be better if the individual corps mutually agreed on methods for protecting members that might include whistleblower notifications going to at least one responsible person outside the individual corps as well as their usual chain, so that multiple people inside and out are aware. That is something that the various Boards of Directors of the member corps could institute as a policy on their own - no need to get DCI admin involved at all. The situation at Spirit was a failure on the part of THAT organization, not the activity as a whole, but it doesn't mean that everyone else can't look for ways to put up guardrails to try and prevent or more effectively address the same problems in years to come. Edited February 4, 2022 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook'emCavies Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 An extreme Longshot.... it could bring back the VFW and/or the American Legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Hook'emCavies said: An extreme Longshot.... it could bring back the VFW and/or the American Legion. Which reminds me… does anyone know what the attendance is at AL and VFW national conventions anymore? edit: found article for 2019 at Indy estimating 10k members to attend Last time there was a corps show at either convention was in the 1980s. And I’m not counting the “AL Championship” which was a regular DCA show or connected with DCA Finals (and not at the convention) Edited February 5, 2022 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Keith Hall said: The "Archaic" system must have worked because we had hundred plus more corps in North America back then. Oh, my. I just cringed when I saw this post, figuring it would be eaten alive before the next mealtime. And then I saw the response... 5 hours ago, GUARDLING said: Actually it didn't BUT if you want to compare the hundreds of corps, many non-competitive , most sponsored by groups who either ( as another poster said ) on life support or not around anymore or able to support themselves let alone the drum corps activity then one would have to compare the world of 50 years ago to today on ALL fronts. First - there were hundreds of concurrently competing corps. If you want to count non-competitive corps, then you are talking thousands. Second - yes, most of them were sponsored by pre-existing organizations. American Legion. VFW. Churches. Schools. Boy Scouts. Girl Scouts. Elks. Eagles. Moose. Amvets. Shriners. Lions Club. Fire departments. Polish Legion of American Veterans. Native Sons/Daughters of the Golden West. More than I can list here. Third - speaking of "on life support", if not for a recent $4.7 million government grant to DCI and other substantial grants to individual corps, we would not be having this conversation. But modern corps already relied upon charitable giving for a vital portion of their funding prior to the pandemic. Drum corps has always been "on life support". The difference is that back in the day, drum corps was sufficiently cost-conscious so that civic organizations already "on life support" themselves could still afford to sponsor a corps. I thought your post was going to explain why the "archaic" system did not work... Edited February 5, 2022 by cixelsyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 17 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: The difference is that back in the day, drum corps was sufficiently cost-conscious so that civic organizations already "on life support" themselves could still afford to sponsor a corps. To clarify, Im unaware of any groups that were on “life support” WHILE they sponsored a corps. The decline came later and a symptom of the decline was no longer sponsoring activities like DC and sports teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Oh, my. I just cringed when I saw this post, figuring it would be eaten alive before the next mealtime. And then I saw the response... First - there were hundreds of concurrently competing corps. If you want to count non-competitive corps, then you are talking thousands. Second - yes, most of them were sponsored by pre-existing organizations. American Legion. VFW. Churches. Schools. Boy Scouts. Girl Scouts. Elks. Eagles. Moose. Amvets. Shriners. Lions Club. Fire departments. Polish Legion of American Veterans. Native Sons/Daughters of the Golden West. More than I can list here. Third - speaking of "on life support", if not for a recent $4.7 million government grant to DCI and other substantial grants to individual corps, we would not be having this conversation. But modern corps already relied upon charitable giving for a vital portion of their funding prior to the pandemic. Drum corps has always been "on life support". The difference is that back in the day, drum corps was sufficiently cost-conscious so that civic organizations already "on life support" themselves could still afford to sponsor a corps. I thought your post was going to explain why the "archaic" system did not work... The corps felt it didn't work and wanted another direction. I'm not going to get into the old and tired discussion on the BITD verses today. It's simply a different world, the good or bad of that. I myself was a member BITD and have taught or been involved in one way or another to the present. Even the member of today is not even close to the member from the 70s or 60s. With that said, corps recognized back then being under the thumb of the AL or VFW ruling was archaic ,with the world changing back then the direction corps believed it was time to also move forward,. Budget wise many corps didn't have much to run on and there were plenty of good hearted directors who mortgaged their homes, took out personal loans, I knew many personally. Fiscally smart ? well I'm not so sure about that, how many corps went belly up? Don't mis understand me, drum corps of the past needs to be respected,100% because the reason there is even anything today is because of the past. remember ( the good or bad of it ) we are what we are today because of those who moved us forward, decade after decade, from the beginning. Like that or not , agree or not it's many from the past who took the activity to the direction it is.. Now I suppose one could debate if that was good or not. I believe if not for smart, aggressive, visionaries from BITD there wouldn't even be an activity today. I was lucky that several were mentor's and I was privileged to have worked under many of them. Edited February 5, 2022 by GUARDLING 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: Plain and simple..The corps felt it didn't work and wanted another direction. I'm not going to get into the old and tired discussion on the BITD verses today. It's simply a different world, the good or bad of that. I myself was a member BITD and have taught or been involved in one way or another to the present. Even the member of today is not even close to the member from the 70s or 60s. With that said, corps recognized back then being under the thumb of the AL or VFW ruling was archaic ,with the world changing back then the direction corps believed it was time to also move forward,. Budget wise many corps didn't have much to run on and there were plenty of good hearted directors who mortgaged their homes, took out personal loans, I knew many personally. Fiscally smart ? well I'm not so sure about that, how many corps went belly up? Don't mis understand me, drum corps of the past needs to be respected,100% because the reason theer is even anything today is because of the past. remember ( the good or bad of it ) we are what we are today because of those who moved us forward, decade after decade, from the beginning I think a lot of people weren't around to know why DCI was created in the first place, or they were and forgot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said: I think a lot of people weren't around to know why DCI was created in the first place, or they were and forgot. You could be right. Maybe these are some of the things which should be re- taught on the 50th anniversary. Your own corps was a huge influence and I believe to this very day in many ways from people to courage to make heads spin back then.. and you did..lol Edited February 5, 2022 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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